Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Fujifilm

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Apr 2, 2005, 6:29 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18
Default

We can all see that nearly all major camera makers regularly release firmware updates for their stuff.

Fuji don't.

They certainly think/believe their cameras are perfect. I don't think so. They are the ones which would need major updates... but Fuji's customers are not "elected".

Who will continue buying Fuji's stuff ? Not me.

And many of you I hope.

Bye bye Fuji.
Houlala is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Apr 2, 2005, 9:18 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
CCWKen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 221
Default

Houlala wrote:
Quote:
We can all see that nearly all major camera makers regularly release firmware updates for their stuff.

Fuji don't.
Personally, I don't think "regular" firmware updates are apositive sign for a manufacturer.It indicates release problems that requirefixes. I certainly don't want a camera I have to upgrade every month!

The old saying; "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" shows good for Fuji.

On the flip side, I guess you missed the release this month for the S3.
CCWKen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 3, 2005, 11:49 PM   #3
Member
 
NivlacNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 35
Default

CCWKen wrote:
Quote:
Personally, I don't think "regular" firmware updates are a positive sign for a manufacturer. It indicates release problems that require fixes. I certainly don't want a camera I have to upgrade every month!
Unfortunately it is a fact of life that basically all software releases have problems that require fixes... I work in the software testing field and so get to see this every day. To release a product, especially one as sophisticated as a digital camera, which is bug free and totally user friendly is statistically impossible.
The fact that Fuji don't even seem to provide a method to update software in the majority (all???) of the cameras is a little sad. I personally would prefer to see the occasional update than have to go out and buy a whole new camera.
Maybe my job has just made me hypercritical of software products but so far I have found a quite few things I am not 100% happy about in my S5500 and I have heard/seen many other people mention the same issues (blanking EVF when charging flash, no indication of focal length or focus distance etc)... don't get me wrong, I still love the camera and think it is a terrific entry level camera but it would be really nice if I knew I could look forward to maybe one or two of these common issues being fixed.

NivlacNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 4, 2005, 1:37 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
CCWKen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 221
Default

The screen blanking is a feature to save battery power and decrease the flash charge time. I seldom see my screen blank-out for more than about two seconds. Usually, it's ready before I am. Compare that to other cameras that take five seconds or more to recharge the flash. I can live with that for the near 20% gain in the Fuji's flash range and almost 2x the battery life over comparable cameras.

... And you need to know the distance to your subject ... For what now? It's auto focus with a smart flash! :roll:And one of best in the industry, I might add. If it bothers you that much during set up, buy a tape measure or a studio lighting system. No one ever relied on the rudimentry lens figures (pre-digital)anyway. If you need the info for archival purposes, it's in the EXIF data stored with your picture.

"...entry level camera ..." ??? Uhmmmmmm. Obviously, you haven't used the full potential of the S5100 or realized the quality of the pictures it can take. Learn to use your camera. It's a far better camera than a "point and shoot". And by no means an entry level camera. You've been reading too manyreviews.Your complaints sound too much like them in thecanned responses.Explore the camera yourself. :-)

Not to go the "old fart" path but I was programming long before you were in dipers, I'm sure. It's a sad state when people accept poor quality and call it normal. It didn't used to be that way. The bottom line drives quality now days.The quality of work and the importance of testing has taken a turn for the worse.
CCWKen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 4, 2005, 8:58 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 170
Default

Unfortunately it seems Fuji doesn't intend on doing firmware updates on their digicams just their SLRs. I have written them numerous times and just get back a form letter. I have even asked if their cameras were flash updateable and they won't answer the question with a yes or no, just that they will look at it. I believe they may use a standard firmware chip and one that is not flash updatable.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"If it aint broke don't fix it is a poor answer. The problem is that technology, no matter how good it is, changes. If you bought a camera that wasn't pictibridge capable but worked fine, wouldn't it be nice to know that you could flash the camera and it would work. What if they came out with a new CF card that was 4 larger and it could work if you could flash the camera. Features change and I think any manufacture needs to relize that they are missing something by not offering flash updates to improve on their cameras. Fujis Answer, lets force them to upgrade to a different model.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"I have a S7000 and I really like the camera and it does take great shots. The autofocus is very good and I hardly ever miss a camera shot. I would still like to know if some day the compression ratio for the 6MP shots could be changed through a flash update but Fuji wont give a straight answer.
host is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 4, 2005, 11:56 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 70
Default

Exactly how many other items require firmware updates?

Do you see regular updates for your TV, Video recorder, telephone, printer, hifi or a whole lot of other electronic items?


No, you don't. Firmware updates are for items that the manufacturer needs to get onto the market *without really testing*. Generally, after a couple of these updates, there's no more done.

So what's the big problem with Fuji not releasing them? If the software in the camera hasn't any major bugs in it (and decent pre-release testing would show them up) - there's no need for Fuji to release them.

Just because some people want this-and-that feature isn't any reason for Fuji to do firmware updates. Like most items, you buy it with the features offered; if you don't like it, you buy something else.




Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 4, 2005, 2:58 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 37
Default

Hi

I'm age 72, a retired Pro. BG HEAD. Let's look at the Fuji s7000. A good camera which could be great. It has problems, It's b---dy noisey. Fuji could have given us 6m only (forget the interpol) allied to 50/100/200 iso.With sort your own J.PEG and raw. Post prcessing in PS or whatever. Neat image and your own favourite interlop. Hey, now , honest wouldn't that be better than wot we have now.

My first didg was a 6900. A great camera. Then I lashed out and bought a Canon 300d BIG mistake. I ended up wth what I wished to avoid buying into DIDG, a camera bag full off one (BIG)body and a snew of lenses. The camera was not that good anyway. The one thing the 7000 has is a great lens and a fantastic depth of field.

Something the Canon did not have unless you forked out a satchel of bucks.

I junked the Canon and bought the Canon Pro 1. Now here's were we come to FIRMWARE. The pro 1 was a good camera, just recently it was made great by the latest firmware. Handling the lens is now as smooth as sulk. The camera is a joy to handle. IF, SADLY. you decide to leave the comfort of fuji and head for foreign parts, you won't go far wrong with the Canon Pro1. With an ISO of 50 A3 size prints are magic. Good shooting. My 7000 is now my back-up camera---VERY SAD--CARLTON
carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 4, 2005, 7:02 PM   #8
Member
 
NivlacNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 35
Default

CCWKen wrote:
Quote:
The screen blanking is a feature to save battery power and decrease the flash charge time.
Yes, I do realise this... unfortunately a lot of the shots I do are at events rather than in the studio and it is a minor annoyance that the screen blanks for these two seconds while the flash recharges. But this is only very minor issue... as you say it is much better to have the fast flash recharge and better battery life, plus it is no problem to just keep both eyes open (which I normally do for low light shots anyway) so even when the evf is blanked you can still see with the left eye.

Quote:
... And you need to know the distance to your subject ... For what now? It's auto focus with a smart flash! :roll: And one of best in the industry, I might add. If it bothers you that much during set up, buy a tape measure or a studio lighting system. No one ever relied on the rudimentry lens figures (pre-digital) anyway.
I am not worried about knowing the distance to the subject... It is more the current focal distance and/or focus distance of the camera for times when I need to manually focus, especially for quick shots or lower light shots where I want to set to hyperfocal distance. Without any indication it means I have to set the focal length (without knowing what it actually is), find something which has enough light/contrast and is at the appropriate distance, auto focus on that then switch to manual focus mode and be very careful to remember not to change zoom or let the camera power down and retract the lens. Again... not too dificult, but there are many times when it would be very nice if I could see the current focal length, do the math and manually set the focus distance to hyperfocal point. Pre-digital there were usually figures marked on the lens barrel itself and from my experience with 35mm SLRS these were reasonably accurate... at least good enough that with a bit of practice you could compensate for any slight error for your particular lens.

Quote:
"...entry level camera ..." ??? Uhmmmmmm. Obviously, you haven't used the full potential of the S5100 or realized the quality of the pictures it can take. Learn to use your camera. It's a far better camera than a "point and shoot". And by no means an entry level camera.
yep, you are right... I have yet to use the full potential of my camera, although who can honestly say they have, as I am really just starting out in the digital photography world... I have worked with 35mm SLRs before. The majority of shots I take with the S5500 are in manual or AP mode, in fact the only time it has ever been on 'Fully Auto' is when my wife borrows it.
Let me reiterate that I am in no way knocking the S5500/S5100. It is a terrific camera and I have taken some excellent shots with it so far and hope to take many more. I guess my statement may have been a little ambiguous. What I mean is that compared to a full dSLR with top quality optics (not that fuji's optics are bad) larger image sensor (thus lower noise, higher iso etc) etc, the S5500 is closer to the entry level camera. As you said, it is deffinately not just a point and shoot camera. Although in reality the photo is made by the photographer, not the camera, so a good photographer even with the cheapest of point and shoots could take an excellent photo.

Quote:
You've been reading too many reviews. Your complaints sound too much like them in the canned responses.
Well, actually the only reviews I read were to do a comparison of what was available before I purchased the camera... and from those I decided to purchase the S5500, if I hadn't liked what I read about it then I would not have purchased it. The 'issues' I have with it are things I have found through using it, not through reading reviews about it, and I have seen that several other owners have noted the same things. Still doesn't change my opinion that it is a great camera and even knowing these minor things I would still purchase it but getting back to the original topic, it would be nice if the ability to upgrade the firmware was provided.

Quote:
Not to go the "old fart" path but I was programming long before you were in dipers, I'm sure. It's a sad state when people accept poor quality and call it normal. It didn't used to be that way. The bottom line drives quality now days. The quality of work and the importance of testing has taken a turn for the worse.
I agree with you, having been using computers and writting code in one form or another since I was 11 (almost 19 years now) I have seen the quality of software drop so much... as processors have become faster and storage cheaper the developers have become less and less skilled at writing clean, efficient code. Now that I work in the software test field (for telecomunication products) I see so many times where people (mainly the development teams and management) will accept poor quality code and where their focus is on developing rather than testing, they get very angry when we start raising issues about their code and products. But unfortunately even the most rigorous testing of large projects can not totally ensure a issue free product especially when you have a complicated user interface where the issues are actually how people think rather than the code itself... this is more often than not the area where firmware updates are an advantage.

Anyway, that's enough waffling on from me... To summarise I totally agree with you that the S5500 is a great camera, that there are ways around any of the minor issues with it and that software quality standards (in general) have slipped. But I still stick with my original statement that it is statistically impossible to produce a 100% issue free product, especially one as complicated as this and with so many influencing factors, not least of which is the end user and that firmware updates, while ideally they shouldn't be necessary, are a good thing to at least have the option of.
Calvin
NivlacNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 4, 2005, 8:56 PM   #9
Member
 
Watchin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 43
Default

I have come to the same conclusion as the original poster.
The Fuji S1 had several problems, they were fixed by the S2.

The Fuji S2 has many small problems, fortunately most are small,
that could be "fixed" with a firmware upgrade. Instead
they insist that to get the Fix you buy the S3... If I
spend 2K on a camera and then have to spend another 2K
on a "fixed" camera do they REALLY think I'm going to
stick with that brand?

The software with the S2 on the PC side is all but useless
due to lack of performance, lack of features, or silly design.

I will keep using the S2 until either the ideal camera comes,
it breaks, or a close enough comes at the right price,
but it probably won't be Fuji because you evidently buy
what is there in the original and live with it. They don't
believe in incremental improvement, or incremental corrections either..
I'm sorry a $2000.00 camera is not a disposable item.

I bought the S2 because (at the time) the specs were good
in comparison, AND I expected them to fix the niggles. For
those that quote the "S3 has had a firmware upgrade" mantra..
Yep maybe because customers were sending them in to
warranty in droves to get them fixed, or demanding
thier money back.

Unfortunately Fuji appears to be in the V1.0 perpetual stupidity loop.

just MHO - Greg
Watchin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 4, 2005, 9:39 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 170
Default

Harvey wrote:
Quote:
Exactly how many other items require firmware updates?

Do you see regular updates for your TV, Video recorder, telephone, printer, hifi or a whole lot of other electronic items?

As a matter of fact many componants are flash updatable. My HP printer is flash updatable. As a matter of fact if you have a PC many componants are updatable. Lets take a DVD RAM if you have one on your PC its probably updatable. Bio Chipsets on PC have been updatable for many years. If you had a PC a few years ago and wanted to use a new componant you updated the motherboard to support it. As for some other componants they are updatable yet but you will probably see more latter as they become more flexible and capable of installing updates to them.

Its hard for a manufacture to test every single possiblity and to prepare for all the new technologies. Firmware updates makes it possible for your electronics to adapt to these changes or to problems they hadn't relized. Too say they are not useful is to not fully understand what they do and the advantages of them. I don't know if you own a Fuji or not? I thinkyou would have to agree however that you shouldn't have to go out and buy the latest model just to relize improvements on issues Fuji relized after the fact. The battery drain problem is one issue the S7000 had. A simple firmware update would probably have fixed it, instead you had to send the camera back to them and wait for weeks. They they changed out the chip and sent it back.
host is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:13 AM.