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Old Jul 29, 2005, 11:55 AM   #11
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There is a real talent involved in taking macro images. In fact, to take what many of us would consider to be superb images of any type requires a lot of practice that comes with failures along with the successes. The sample images that have been pointed to in a previous message in this threat are exquisite. But you have to remember that they were probably taken by professional photographers. I think the problem with any camera is that the "average" photographer, like I consider myself to be, hasn't invested the time, and the money, and experienced the frustration, and hasn't had some of the studio tools available that were used to take some of those pictures. We read of a new camera, and want to hurry out and get one so that we can start taking that quality of picture. And when we don't get that quality immediately, we want to blame the camera, the Company, the lens, or whatever. In reality, you probably aren't going to see the real advantage this camera has to offer from looking at images on your computer because your monitor can't begin to show all the detail from a picture taken with a 9 MP camera. You've got to be able to see a print to evaluate the results.

I'm only using a 5100. And I'm not going to hurry out and purchase a 9000 because in reality, even though there are more than twice as many pixels, the camera isn't going to make me a better photographer then I am right now. If I ever be develop my skills to the point that I REALLY need a 9 MP camera, then I might consider purchasing one.
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Old Jul 29, 2005, 1:43 PM   #12
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Well constructed argument IMO. It's a bit like driving a very fast car and then blaming it when it doesn't go as fast as you expected. The real problem is not the car but the driver's ability.

I have a Panasonic FZ20 and my mate has a Fuji 5100. We've agreed that unless we spend lots of time practising and experimenting our photos will look average.

Where's the fun in buying a top of the range camera anyway? I find it much more challenging using a camera that has some limitations to see if we can reach them.
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Old Jul 29, 2005, 6:30 PM   #13
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First, can one of the mods fix that link above so the page isn't 10ft. wide? What a pain to read.

Second, when I first read about the s9000 it immediately got my mouth watering for one. But after reflecting on it a bit, I'm not so exited. Overall, it's not that much better than my existing s7000. Sure, it addresses a lot of the short comings of the s7000, but at that price, a DrebleXT is only about $100 more and that would be another monstrous improvement over the s9000. Sure, It looks like a great little camera, but I'm going to pass. My 7000 will hold me until I'm ready to make the move to a DSLR. I can't see myself buying another all-in-one digicam unless it's a credit card sized convenience camera. However this would be mighty appealing if I were making the switch from a point and shoot to the mid-level-not-ready-for-a-DSLR camera as I was when I bought the 7000.
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Old Jul 30, 2005, 7:44 PM   #14
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After looking over the S9xxx, I think it is a nicely balanced package of improvements and changes. No cam ever has everything to please everybody. Given the history of past Fuji introductions, I will wait for sample pictures from actual users with production models before I make a firm decision. In the past, some of Fuji's new releases (S602, S7000 for example) have set up howls of indignation and cries of what a piece of junk,pre-production sample photoslooked awful, while others thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and couldn't possibly get any better. In various forums, many have overlooked the contrast/saturation adjusments on this new cam. I'm not ready to replace my S7k just yet, but so far the new S9xxx looks pretty good and I expect/hope that real pics from real users will cause me to reach the same conclusion.

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Old Jul 31, 2005, 12:11 AM   #15
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Give it a few months and the street price on this will likely be down to $550 or so, maybe even a bit less.... for that price this looks to be an amazing camera.
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Old Jul 31, 2005, 1:21 AM   #16
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Okay everyone, here is my take on all this.

I had used only film SLRs from 1978 to 2003, I then got a little point and shoot digital. I was hooked immediately by the flexibility of digital and was quite happy with results which were often better then what I was getting with far more sophisticated cameras on film. I bought a Fuji S7000 about seven months ago as a stopgap until I could afford a digital SLR (my 35mm equipment was old M-series Pentax and Minolta Maxxum, one would lose most of the camera features, the other was too expensive), now lets look at the numbers.

First complaint I read dealt with the slow lens of the S9000, Okay go check the prices on SLR lenses which have that range and are faster (or even equal) to the S9000, now add that to the price of your entry level DSLR.

Second, it does not have image stabilization, well, the Konica Minolta 7D, and upcoming 5D are the only DSLRs which offer IS with all lenses, Canon and Nikon offer it only on very expensive lenses, Pentax and Sigma have none. Yes there are lesser digicams with IS but most do not offer the other features of the S9000. The majority of long telephoto lenses in use today are not IS, instead people use tripods or the more convenient monopod to stabilize the image.

Third, the lack of interchangeable lenses, well the majority of SLR and DSLR owners do not have a range of lenses any greater than the zoom on this Fuji. Typically DSLR lenses which offer this sort of range are slow and not all that sharp, most owners need 3 lenses to cover this range. My current SLR zooms (three of them) range from 18mm to 210mm, with the typical 1.5X factor of most DSLRs that would give the same range as the S9000 with one lens, (and except for less than 1/3 stop at the tele end the S9000 lens is faster than my f:3.5-4.5 and f:4 zooms, most entry level DSLR lenses are even slower).

Fourth, Dust is always an issue with a DSLR and if dust gets on the sensor while you are using the camera you must either stop to clean it (a sometimes intimidating task) or fix your images afterwards (could be very time consuming). A sealed unit like this camera will not have that issue unless it is used in very extreme conditions.

Are DSLRs better overall??, of course!!, but the added cost in money, and mass, are substantial. Do not look at DSLR kit prices unless they offer you an equivalent package to what the S9000 offers.

Now to get back to my original comment, I used to carry a very large camera bag with four lenses, two flash units, two camera bodies (loaded with different films) and a number of other accessories. My shoulder hurt and I spent lots of time just changing cameras and lenses. Now I carry a Fuji S7000, some spare batteries, a powerful accessory flash and extra memory cards in a small bag (and when I don't need the flash I use an even smaller bag). It covers most of the focal lengths I usually used (except the 28 to 35mm segment) and weighs only a fraction of my old kit. The S9000 would offer the entire range at similar weight. And Fuji has addressedsome of the issues I had with the S7000, the lens no longer extends to use, and the zoom is mechanical (the battery and time consuming system seemed silly idea anyway for a camera far too large to fit in a pocket) which means start up is faster and zoom more precise,shutter lagseems to be mostly eliminated after prefocus,and the EVF has a higher refresh rate to make following action easier.

I may yet get a DSLR but the S9000 looks like a viable alternative which would cover most of the effectiveness of an entry level DSLR kit costing about twice as much (remember those lenses). Would it make me a better photographer, of course not, would it fit better with the skills I learned from all that film SLR experience, definitely.

Lets give this newcomer a chance to prove what it can do instead of comparing it to the next level up, which is usually far more costly than it would first appear.



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Old Aug 1, 2005, 8:51 AM   #17
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Where did you found that information on the mechanical zoom? :?

That would be soooo great!

To my mind it looks very promising. Yes - the lens speedIS disappointing when you take into account that Fuji had some faster in the past. BUT you get a 28mm wide equivalent! I am up to trade the faster lens (watch the new 5200/5600 with f/3.2-f/3.5 on 10x Zoom) for the 28mm. I use a Oly C770 UZ atm and I had enough situations where I was in need of some wide lens.

I read all those reviews on Fujis Super HR image sensor and tested a F700 last year (3mp * 2). I always thougt pushing up the mp was the wrong way - I always wanted to use the HR sensor with native resolution but better image quality.

And here it is... in the F10 and the new Fuji models they do just that.

Give an optical viewfinder to follow moving objects and better burst mode imo. No IS is ok when you got a high ISO and can use a monopod/tripod as I am used to.

I will definitely look at that cam in the stores.

Ofc it is not perfect. OK. But who is? And for what price? I saw terrible photos from a Canon 300D last week - so even a DSLR doesnt prevent you from getting bad images! (landscapes in the evening with clear sky, mostly done using the wide end of the zoom - I am absolutely clueless how some1 can do BAD photos in that situation. Blurry, grainy, not sharp, bad lightning, bad colors... best bet I have is the cam needs repairing)

I am used to take photos with a Minolta SLR and thus a replacement with a S9000 wouldn't mean that more weigth and stuff.

Am anxious to get one to test, really!
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Old Aug 1, 2005, 12:43 PM   #18
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This will probably sound like a strange thing to like about the new 9000. But it will accept a cable release. For me, that goes a long way toward allowing me to take more stable pictures. I have a disability, I'm quite shaky, and as much as I like my 5100 it's difficult to use. Someone has developed a clip-on cable release for it, but I like the fact that the 9000 has the capability built into it.
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Old Aug 1, 2005, 3:27 PM   #19
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jphess, I know what you mean, dedicated remote controls and dedicated flash units are all well and good, BUT... what was wrong with the old cable release anyway, and isn't a non-dedicated, non-TTL hot shoe much better than none at all?.

I use my old flash brackets, Vivitar flash units, cable releases and even an old push bulb hose type 20' release. I have not had to invest any money into "dedicated" accessories and batteries for my S7000, except for the filter adapter tube so that I can now use my non-dedicated Cokin filters.

The S9000 should have the same capabilities with an improvement in image quality. ( I know that 9MP is a lot for a small sensor camera, but improvements in sensor design and image processing has put the current 1/1.7" 7MP cameras way ahead of last years 2/3" 8MP models in image quality, if the S9000 is an improvement over those 8MP prosumer models then put me first in line).

thkn777, the Fuji literature calls it a manual zoom, hopefully it is for real and not "fly-by-wire". I think Fuji has finally gotten the message that these larger cameras S9000, S5200/5600, do not need to retract their lenses to save space, and in the bigger camera why not make it mechanical, the Sony F-828 and the larger Minoltas have always been that way. Saves on battery power from those "non-dedicated" AA-NiMH batteries as well.



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Old Aug 2, 2005, 2:33 AM   #20
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@Monza

Yeah - thats exactly the question I have - true mechanical or as you called it "fly by wire". Mechanical would be sooooo nice! I guess we have to wait till some1 gets his hand on it.

Have a nice day!
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