Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Fujifilm

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Feb 13, 2003, 10:46 AM   #21
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,544
Default

Quote:
I'm no lawyer, but I would venture to say Fuji is in a deep legal hole with this because (unless they have since changed it) their website says that compact flash works in their cameras without making any mention of only their or even any particular brand at all.
This is not unique to just Fuji... Every camera manufacturers have this problem. It only makes make it more so with the s602 because of its unrestricted video recording whereas most other manufacturers limit it to their camera buffer size...

... This is why flashcard manufacturers with guarantees are better than none (they also have tested compatibility charts at their websites)...
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 11:07 AM   #22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24
Default

And now I know what to look out for when purchasing memory for the 602...

All this being said - to those thinking of purchasing a 602 - it's a great camera for its price. I am very happy it - it didn't take long at all to learn many of the manual functions which came in very handy right off the bat (and I'm only a beginner). Even if you account for the fact that only microdrives and Fuji CF cards work in the CF slot, it's still a great advantage over other cameras.
aero23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 11:54 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,162
Default

Quote:
Fuji is in a deep legal hole with this because (unless they have since changed it) their website says that compact flash works in their cameras
Interesting, I could not find this on their site, perhaps I'm pesimistic, but there are a lot of words like 'work' and 'most features' which can let them off the hook.

Post the Fuji link if you can find it. I think one problem , if you are not the chip maker in control of the card design, is what might be compatible yesterday, might not be tomorrow.

CF doesn't always seem to be functionally compatible in Fuji cams - like say pc HDD's. or CF in pcmcia. BUT some MP3 products do warn of similar problems, and it all seems linked to error free continuous data transfer.

I thought when they launched the PRO version with a couple of tweaks - and included a Microdrive - they were doing some damage limitation!
voxmagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 12:48 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24
Default

Here are some links:

http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/fujidc/fp602/


This next link is the real kicker - on this page, click the 'storage media' link and wait for a pop-up window. This window pretty much flat out says you can use any type of Compact Flash - AND ALSO - you can use Microdrives.

http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/fujidc/accessories/
aero23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 2:36 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,162
Default

aero23... Yes you're right the media page is a real kicker - BUT that's 'cos if you drill down to CF camera compatibility by type, the S602 is not listed!!!

Here's a couple of quotes from the first Fuji link, which contradicts the handbook you get after you buy it:

CompactFlash™ cards can be used in the following current models:
FinePix 602 Zoom
FinePix S2 Zoom


CompactFlash™ cards are, generally, second only to SmartMedia™ in terms of popularity. You’ll find them in a similar range of capacities to SmartMedia™ along with larger capacities of up to 1Gb.CompactFlash™ cards appear in the FinePix S602 Zoom and S2 Pro models where the larger capacities are ideally suited to the larger image files and (in the case of the S602 Zoom) the VGA movies produced by the 3rd Generation Super CCD technology used in these cameras.

So there is a strong smell of rats around this issue. No mention of incompatibility - What do you guys think of the claims on legal grounds then? sounds like somebody could win on misrepresentation? Not sure if 'used' means it must work 100%. Do we need that elusive firmware upgrade?
voxmagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 4:01 PM   #26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 17
Default

I haven't been in the digital arena near as long as most of you guys and I certainly didn't have any trouble understanding that some compactflash cards may not work properly. In fact, it is printed right on the box and the owner's manual as well.

Purchase brands with a good reputation and you should be fine.

Rodney
Rodney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 4:51 PM   #27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24
Default

My reason for starting this thread is that it is easy to miss that little important piece of information about not all CF's working. Most retailers on the internet sell CF's for the 602, Fuji's website even says you can use them (I know there are places where it says not all work - but only after you dig more). Like many other people, not only are digital cameras new to them, but flash memory in general and the in's and out's of them are even more foreign. Plus, forget about mentioning the statements in the manual or the box - many people (like me) will want to buy a CF card before the camera arrives in the mail after ordering over the internet or phone and will not have the opportunity to read those warnings.

There are plenty of people who will find this out before it's too late, but there are also plenty who won't.
aero23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 7:04 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,162
Default

Rodney... I'm not convinced this issue is solvable entirely by brand reputation - unless you mean getting your money back, no argument guarantee if it doesn't work.

I don't think these cards are 'faulty' I believe there is different architecture inside those black cases, and with so many vendors (and a small number of chip makers) you just don't know at any time whether you can buy and repeat buy CF media with confidence. At least with SM the special driver bits are in the cam.

Aero23/NHL.. have you heard of any compatibility problems using CF in pcmcia adaptors for laptop drives - although I guess they aren't continuously streaming data are they?

PS judging by the read hits, this is a popular thread!
voxmagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2003, 7:39 PM   #29
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,544
Default

I haven't run into any problem with flash cards in a PCMCIA slot. The flash cards actually fool Window into fast writes when you try to copy large amount of data to it. The initial estimate on the pop-up window always shows a shorter amount of time remaining than the microdrive, but in practice it actually took Window a much longer time to complete the writes! The longer estimate for completion on the microdrive is more accurate, and the microdrive always finished first.

I think this is due to the fast initial buffer fill in the CF flash controller itself, but just like the s602, reality will eventually catch up when the blocks/pages limitation of flash is finally reached. No error though... Flash cards just take a much longer time than a microdrive to copy the same directory (even though the pop-up window said otherwise and its task bar remained on longer!) :lol: :lol: :lol:
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 14, 2003, 7:52 AM   #30
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,544
Default

I also tend to agree with Vox. Guarantees in this business are like rebate programs, the manufacturers rely on the fact that some customers would never send the device back!

How can they guarantee something that is guaranteed to fail? Flashes have limited wear cycle! Granted it's in the million of cycle, but unlike a RAM cell one can not rewrite one location! An entire block of data has to be erased first in order to re-write just 1 location... So for individuals who reviewed and edited out their pictures... They are just taking life away from their flash cards ops: ops: ops:

Quote:
...Erased/program operation by high voltage can cause oxide degradation and a failure if it is repeated without limit. By this reason, the number of program/erase cycling (called as endurance) is guaranteed up to 1E6 cycles...

The controller should monitor each block counter not to use specific blocks repeadtely
(page 10) http://www.samsungelectronics.com/se...s/app_nand.pdf

... Also notice the initial invalid blocks, and the bad blocks and the respective ECC management... :lol: :lol: :lol:
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:03 PM.