Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Fujifilm

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 26, 2005, 4:00 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 126
Default

Well, Sarah, I guess this is a hot button issue for you! I can see how it's easy to misinterpret my comment and I should have said more, but I didn't have much time to post earlier. I thought the article's conclusion was predictable from the pictures. Even without the English translation their position was obvious. I did not mean to imply that I agree with the conclusions of the article because actually, I don't think it's black and white at all. There are so many variables nowadays that affect digital photo quality, even in p+s cams: lens quality, manual controls, sensors, megapixels, options to shoot uncompressed, IS, ISO... I'm just trying to learn as much as I can and keep an open mind about the issues.

Yes, I bought the 8080 because it's a great camera and I can live without IS on a 5x zoom. (It's not a high ISO camera either.) Photo quality is the deal breaker for me, so I'm willing to compromise on IS. As I said in a reply to nafta's post "List with pros and cons...," I'd rather compensate for lack of IS, since I can't compensate much for lack of photo quality. But would I prefer to leave the tripod home? You bet! (I'm not sure if IS is so optional with some of the super zooms, like the 15x Samsung 815. I'm really curious about that one.) And I think Herb makes an interesting point about the weight of older cameras. Everything keeps getting smaller and lighter. Digital photography has its own unique issues and problems. Just because there was no IS in the 50s and 60s doesn't necessarily mean it's trivial now. I don't want to dismiss a beneficial innovation just because we got by without it in the past. I'm glad it's an option.
B1ue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2005, 4:10 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 448
Default

Currently the image stabilisers in many ultrazoom cameras work much better than high iso values. At 8MP virtually all prosumer cameras have noise problems above iso 100. Despite very good image stabilisers we need also CCDs, which exhibit low noise with high iso values at high resolution, because you can't sharpen motion with an image stabiliser. The new Sony 10MP CCD seems to be a first step in this direction and this CCD will be used also by other manufacturers.
kassandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2005, 9:19 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

kassandro-

I think that you have made an excellent point. The new Sony 10.3mp CMOS imager will open even more doors in terms of technical improvement. We need to take each new development as it comes along and add it to our kit.

MT
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2005, 1:48 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7
Default

I have valued the comments of many of the contributors here in regards tovarous Digital Cameras. I have been considering the Sony H1, Kodak P850 and the Fuji S5200 to supplement my current 2MP-3x zoom camera. I have concluded that with the various settings and/or some post processing, that allthose I have considered would provide me with an acceptable image, however, my decision really hinges onoptical IS verus higher ISO capabilities. Here are my thoughts on the subject:

1. All of the subject cameras can perform quite well good light conditions, In less thanideal lighting, I drew the following conclusions:

A. IS appears to be better than high ISO capability for handheld static subjeect shots as the lower shutter speeds allow low ISO values as well as higher f stop values (if desired for DOF) but doesnot fair well for action shots.

B. Higher ISO capabilities allows faster shutter speeds to reduce or eliminate bluring due to camera shake as well as subject motion with perhaps some limitation on f stop values.

C. A High ISO capable camera (no IS) permits static subject shots in lower light levels then the IS equipedcamera (w/o high ISO) if one is willing to use some form of camera support or tripod.

I have no qualms of using camera support for those situations requiring such and since the S5200, in my opinion, provides a more well rounded usage camera (better for subject motion and wider range of light levels) I am leaning toward the S5200. My current camera has a fast lens, F1.8(W)-F2.6(T) so I am able to get good shutter speeds for action or low f stops for low light situations, so these are some of my expections.

Future Digital Cameraswill more than likely have both IS and high ISO capabilities and with the somewhat lower initial cost of the S5200, I might feel more inclined to update sooner.

Disregarding anyone's personal prederences for features and/or brands, does my reasoning have some validity or have I seriously missed something? Comments!

Richy
diccam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2005, 2:21 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 245
Default

diccam wrote:
Quote:
C. A High ISO capable camera (no IS) permits static subject shots in lower light levels then the IS equipedcamera (w/o high ISO) if one is willing to use some form of camera support or tripod.
This will only allow you to snap the picture faster. If you have a tripod and there is no subject movement, it's best to keep ISO toa minimum to reduce noise...

On the rare occasion you're exposure limit is reached, raising ISO will help. But, I doubt that would happen unless you're doing astronomy or something...who does that with a standard digital anyways? :? There is a special version of the20D (dSLR)camera designed specifically for astronomy and it's NOT cheap.
swgod98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2005, 2:29 PM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5
Default

The russian site to which 'Peha' draws the conclusion that the Panasonic is the camera to buy tries to compare the Panasonic at 80 ISO and the Fuji at typically 400 ISO. Of course the Panasonic is going to produce better results at its lowest IOS setting! Presumably the Russian site is trying to compare the two different 'anti shake' modes but this is ONLY relevant if you are trying to take images of still life. This subject is very well explored in other parts of this forum and I wil not go into details here. If you only wish to use these cameras for static subjects then the Panasonic will be the one to buy but for all round use a higher ISO provides a much better basis for sharp photos especially in low light. The obvious choice for this is a near full frame DSLR but to compare this to the Fuji S9500 would involve the additional expense of an 18-200 super zoom and then you would find the aperture setting would be down by at least one full stop which in turn would require doubling the ISO to compensate. Then there is the question of dust on the chip to introduce further problems!!!

Im afraid that there is no current camera that fulfils all rquirements but a fuji xxxx which includes IS or Panasonic with the Fuji chip would probably be a very compelling compromise but then the cost would go up!!! never mind one day we will all have the perfect camerabut then life would be very boring.

Tony
tony1620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2005, 2:35 PM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7
Default

swgod98:

I fully agree that keeping ISO also low as possible is first choice, however, if the situation arose,I see some advantage of having the capability I expressed.

Thankyou for your response...Richy

Correction: Mis-read your comment. It is a matter of how long it take to make the shot as my statement was written, however,my thoughts wereconsidering an example whichI did not includewhere some motion (not fast) exsited that could be captured, sayat 400 ISO. 1/200 sec and without high ISO capabilities, the ISO for equivalent noise could result in shutter speeds 1-2 step lower giving some blur. A narrow window, I admit but none the less an advantage does exsist. Didn't mean to confuse anyone.
diccam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2005, 3:35 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

Everyone sort of has to make up their own mind on this issue based on the kind of shooting that they regularlydo. However, based on one glimpse of the future which seems to revolve around Sony's new 10.3mp CMOS chip, we see Nikon supposedly gearing up for a new camera to replace the 8400 and the 8800 based on Sony's CMOS chip. Other camera makers cannot be far belind. We have already seen previews of the Sony R-1, etc.

The interesting thing to observe as new cameras are introduced is if the new generation will go for IS or for high ISO usage. That Sony CMOS chip on the R-1 has an advertised High ISO of 3200.

MT
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2005, 6:10 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
PeHa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 204
Default

Is the Sony chip in R1really a 'first step' or a 'new generation'? It's a sensor with about the same size and capabilities (high ISO and large dynamic range) as of those already used in dSLRs today. The new thing is that it's built into a compact styled (but not compact) camera.

As the sensor is large it will also bring the backdraws of requiring larger, advancedand more expensive lenses. The R1 is a huge camera and has a zoom range of 5X so that chip technology may never be the solution for compact super zoom cameras.

/Per


PeHa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2005, 11:54 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

We will see what happens in the next 4 to 6 months.

MT
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 7:37 AM.