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Old Oct 25, 2005, 3:07 PM   #1
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Hi there.

I'm trying to choose between the S9500 and the Panasonic FZ30, yesterday I had just decided to go for the Fuji but check this test (in Russian but the crops says a lot):

http://www.videozona.ru/photo_tests/...Z30_page05.asp

Also, comparing the RAW files in the same review (page 03), the 'low noise' S9500 doesn't come out better than the 'noisy' FZ30...

This evening I'mheading for the FZ30 after all.

/Per


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Old Oct 25, 2005, 3:35 PM   #2
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Hey, thanks for posting this!! I've always wanted to see an in depth review between IS and higher ISO. This is perfect, with one exception! I can't read a word of it!! :lol:

I'm not sure what the point/conclusion of the review is, but to my eyes (which are very untrained) it looks like the FZ provided a better picture nearly every time. There were times when higher ISO helped camera shake, but it just introduced noise.

Without knowing what was said in the review, it didn't look like it talked about how much higher ISO helps stop subject blur (only camera shake). That is one inherent advantage of ISO vs. IS.

Hmmm...I just read (er saw) the rest of the pages. That review goes into more detail than just IS vs. ISO...Someone really needs to translate that page to english or I'm going to buy myself a Russian for Dummies book and figure it out myself! :lol:
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Old Oct 25, 2005, 3:58 PM   #3
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Agree, ISO is better for moving subjects but as Antiblur or stabilization is most important at long zoom ranges, the shutter speed is usually good enough anyway.

(Remember the antiblur rule; ISO needs to go up, causing more noise, so that the shutter speed equals or exceeds the 1/focal point, i.e. at 200mm you should shoot at least 1/200 sec. That is,if you don't have an optical stabilization system :idea.

/Per
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Old Oct 25, 2005, 6:24 PM   #4
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You can get your basic fractured English translation from Babelfish, http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/tr.

The conclusion is IS wins over ISO, as demonstrated in the tests.
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Old Oct 25, 2005, 8:36 PM   #5
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Mr. B1ue-

I don't mean to be rude. But won't you please consider this:

All during the 1950's, 1960's, and even into the 1970'swe folks who used Speed Graphics and Crown Graphics (you might not remember those cameras!) had never heard of IS. None the less we got the photos that we needed to please our editors.

How did we do it? By increasing the ASA/ISOpossibilities by using a different, but faster film. What Fuji is preaching today is no different than those days from the past. ISO will cure camera movement just as much as IS.

IS is NOT A CURE! However, many folks don't understand that. Are they all a bunch of hypnotized camera freaks? It is hard to tell. But I will remind you that the dSLR folks have never has IS until KM arrived on the horizon. How did they ever keep their cameras still before the magic of IS. By simply increasing their ISO setting. It was that simple.

Now Mr B1ue, your new and prized Olympus C-8080 does not have IS, but wonder of wonders! It takes great photos. How does it do it? By simply increasing the ISO setting. Please do not get sucked into the IS vortex.

I have been a professional photographer for almost 55 years. Well before the onset of IS. How did we do it? Simply by increasing the ISO by way of film or ISO setting, it is all the same.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Oct 25, 2005, 10:10 PM   #6
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Sarah,

You're no doubt right about the ISO settings, but I have the impression that the Speed Graphic & similar cameras weighed a lot more than the things used now. The heavier a camera is, the more inertia it has, so was that also a big factor in reducing camera shake?

Herb
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Old Oct 25, 2005, 11:42 PM   #7
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Herb wrote:
Quote:
Sarah,

You're no doubt right about the ISO settings, but I have the impression that the Speed Graphic & similar cameras weighed a lot more than the things used now. The heavier a camera is, the more inertia it has, so was that also a big factor in reducing camera shake?

Herb
Well that explains why I never felt the need to use over 200 ISO 35mm film in my very heavy antique Minolta SRT 101, I rarely use the tripod and often use my heavy telefoto lens. I guess all that heft keeps me from moving it while taking pics. It sure keptit fromblowing apart whenit was dropped down the stairs at a wedding :roll: I call it the tank.

I have a fuji 3800 and cant take the same pics I can with the minolta without a slave flash or a tripod in low light conditions.

I was looking at a higher ISO fuji but I hate noise and wonder if IS isnt the answer. The russian images address exactly what Im trying to avoid unessesary noise.

But I havent figured out how IS performs on movement such as a dimly lit concert where theyre moving around. I looked at the ISO in the russian samples and the one with the IS was at ISO 80 so it looks like there should be room to increase it before it gets grainy but will it be enough to stop movement.
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Old Oct 26, 2005, 12:29 AM   #8
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mnosbor, youmay notbe able to "completely" stop subject movement with indoor lighting at ISO 200 unless the subject isn't moving very much. IS does nothing to prevent a moving subject from blurring due to slow exposure times. If you can get an exposure time fast enough to stop the action, it will likely be enough to stop the camera shake (also depends on how far you are zoomed in).

speaklightly, I agree with your argument, but I do not agree with your point. When one is dealing with subject movement, we can all agree (I hope) that IS does nothing for the user. However, when there is NO subject movement (or very little), then IS can do a heck of a lot to help!!

I challenge anyone to take their camera (that has 380mm or higher zoom range, preferrably 432mm) and set it for full zoom (no IS, hand held) and a 1/8 second exposure and post it as proof that IS is not a feature that can help prevent camera shake.

I fully respectyour 55 years of camera service (and I certainly don't like to argue against that), but my 2 months (lol) with my S2 IS is telling me something isn't right here...

The only CURE I know of is a tripod. Because neither IS or raising ISO is guaranteed to prevent camera shake. They are simply two different ways to get a better picture. Now, while raising ISO does more than just help prevent camera shake, it also introduces noise (which digital camera's are affected very badly by).
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Old Oct 26, 2005, 2:36 AM   #9
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IS undoubtedly helps camera shake as part of a competent photographer's repertoire just as Diet Coke helps weight loss as part of a calorie controlled diet..

But, keeping with the point of the thread in comparing the 9500 and the FZ30, I chose the 9500 because the FZ30 has a noise problem which is a shame because the optics are obviously sharper.

I'm sure we all dream of Leica optics shinin' on a Super CCDone day.. And no, I can't afford a Fuji dSLR with Leica glass:sad:
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Old Oct 26, 2005, 2:45 AM   #10
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With a dSLR you can probably do as Sarah suggests, raise the ISO to 1600 or even 3200 and still have noise on acceptable levels, curing both moving subjects and camera shake.

This seems to be themost obvious price regarding image quality you have to pay choosing a compact, the smaller sensors cause significant noise over 400, that's a fact even with the 'low noise' S9000/S9500, it's still a compact...

However, I think shooting RAW and do some post processing to belearning &interesting :-)

/Per


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