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Old Jan 5, 2006, 6:28 PM   #31
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ISoS,

As posted I will keep you and everyone else updated when I hear from Fuji.

Steve,

Sorry to hear someone else has the exact same problem I have.

Thanks for the link. 'Misery loves Company'.

Regards, Nicholas
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Old Jan 5, 2006, 8:24 PM   #32
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Nick-

I realize that this is a bit off topic, but because I own BOTH the S-5200 and the S-9000, I actually find the S-5200 to be a good deal sharper and a camera that handles ISO 800 and 1600 better.

Any comparisons?

MT


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Old Jan 6, 2006, 5:49 AM   #33
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Because it happened to you you can't assume it will happen to anyone else. Has this happened to anyone else? I suspect yours is defective and not a general problem with the camera. Don't let your anger cause you to jump to conclusions. It's under warranty. Have it repaired or replaced.
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Old Jan 6, 2006, 6:17 AM   #34
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I don't think any of us are angry.

Read Steve's post above about another person with the same problem.

Read my above post for details about my placing my camera in for repair.

Mrclimber,

Iit is a bit off topic, worth a separate thread. I think this thread should focus on the dial issue especially as there is someone else with the same problem.

Regards, Nicholas
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Old Jan 6, 2006, 3:56 PM   #35
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Nick-

That is a point that is very valid, Nick, and I appreciate your response. I appologize for going off topic.

BTW I used Proton's suggested settings from the S-90 Quality thread and the sharpness, at least to my eyes has markedly improved.

MT
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Old Jan 7, 2006, 7:33 AM   #36
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Well that's 2 out of how many out there? The point is it must be a verry uncommon problem or we would hear a lot more about it.
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Old Jan 7, 2006, 8:11 AM   #37
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I agree with TB - cannot for the life of me see that this can be anything more than one or two isolated incidents. Other than a hard knock, uninformed attempts at disassembly or the oddreject component creeping in during factory assembly - I cannot see that the design and construction of this component would be prone to sudden catastrophic failure.
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Old Jan 7, 2006, 12:16 PM   #38
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We cannot assume that because only two command dial failures were reported on this forum, that there have been only two failures of this component on all of the S9000/9500 cameras sold to date. We only have about 52,000 members at this time. Fuji would have a much better idea of how many failures have occurred than we would. We also cannot assume that there will not be many or any more failures, since this is a relatively new model with relatively very little use.

The key to the number of failures we may expect is the cause of the failure. Basically, we can categorize the cause of the failure of the command dial as one of the following: a) An inherent defect in the dial as the result of the manufacturing process, such as a void or crack which weakens the spindle and over a period of time and usage propagates thru the spindle until it breaks; b) A design flaw, such as location and/or strength of the component, which leads to breakage due to impact or excessive stress; c) A combination of inherent defects and design flaws; d) Operator abuse.

In the case of cause a), worst case scenario, all of the command dials have an existing defect which will eventually cause all of them to fail. A more realistic scenario is that some of the command dials have no existing defects and therefore will never fail, some of the dials will have non-propagating defects and will never fail, and some of the dials will have propagating defects and will eventually fail. With cause b), at any given time, you may bump, lift, or twist your dial in such a way that it will break. Then again, this may never happen to you. With cause c), any of the actions listed under cause b), above, coupled with a structural weakness will increase the probability of failure dramatically, especially as time passes. Cause d) is kind of one of those s*** happens things...you bump it, drop it, slam it in the car door, which could cause any component of any camera to break.

What happened to Nick's command dial? I am leaning toward cause c), above. I was unable to clearly see the failure site on Nick's spindle on the photos he posted (due to lack of sharpness at magnification), though it appears there may have been a flaw there. The design concern I have can be seen here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Fuji...es/inhand2.jpg

In this picture, I see two potential problems...one is the proximity/contact of the individual's thumb with the command dial. It would appear that it wouldn't take much to either lift the dial upward from the camera body, or deflect the dial forward to the front of the camera with the thumb. The other potential problem I see is the proximity of the strap attachment lug to the command dial. With the strap attached, how easy would it be for the strap to become lodged under the dial, lifting it up and stressing the spindle?

Just my two cents. Anyway, I hope you get your camera returned promptly, Nick. And I hope Fuji performs a failure analysis on your and other broken dials and fixes the problem.

the Hun

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Old Jan 7, 2006, 1:36 PM   #39
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Hi Hun, A nice engineering & quality appraisal.

The images ofNick's dial taken with his D60 are much clearer on this site http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=25137

If you imagine the dial in itscorrect position it seems to me that the fractures on the spindle and the two camlocating lugsareconsistent with a cantilever upward force being applied against that portion of the dial the protrudes beyond the camera body (as you suggest in one of your scenarios). Whether the componenthad an inherent flawprior to that force being applied is a matter of conjecture - and I think onlyFuji's QA can determine that. I personally still think that unintentionally and perhaps unoticed, some kind of force was exerted against the dial overhang that either caused the failure entirely or compounded an existing manufacturingdefect.

Just my personal opinion based on what little examinable evidence there is available.
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Old Jan 7, 2006, 5:21 PM   #40
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Hun & Steve,

Thanks for the analysis.

I have the following observations:

Fuji failed on its engineering of the Command dial.

It should not have broken off, ( not off a $500- $600 camera ).

It should have been recessed, or the body molded about it torecess the dial.

No manufacturer should expose itself to monetary loss to replace such a dial on one of it's cameras.

The other Fuji S9000 user with a broken dial ( reported after my initial report) had four things in common with me as a user:

1) The camera was owned for 3 months.

2) The camera was used on a daily basis.

3) The Commad Dial turned with no effect on the exposure, etc., while still remaining in place ( before it fell off for me ).

4) The camera was not dropped.( Gravity being what is is, the lens would likely hit the ground before the back of the camera where the command dial is ).

*****

I am using my D60 as a back-up and the more I use it, the more I realize just how more powerful and effective the S9000 is TO MEthan my D60.

Thanks for your thoughts and replies.

Regards, Nicholas


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