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Old Apr 9, 2003, 2:59 PM   #11
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I'm not sure which specific point on the post you are pointing too. But that does not concern the burst mode(s). The s602 will shoot 5 frames in burst mode in 6mp High(tiff) setting before it has to flush to the media. Howver, it should be noted that the camera checks the space on the card before it bursts, and will reduce the number from 5 to lower if you do not have enough space on teh card to store all of the photos.

*Unless some non-lossy compression format is used internally that the processor can handle at high enough speeds, then the total buffer capacity would have to be approx. 96mb to hold 5x 17-18mb 6mp RGB 24 bit files.

The interpolated 6mp image is not done so in a post process to a 3mp image, as this is contradictory to target resoluton test experiments. You can refer to www.imaging-resource.com where they have availabe the target resoluton captures at 6mp and 3mp modes. As well, feel free to attempt tp reduce the 6mp to 3mp, then attempt to rescale it using any interpolation software of your choosing and retain the data. It will not work.

-Chris
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Old Apr 9, 2003, 8:08 PM   #12
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From what I gathered:
Quote:
s602 can take 3 consecutive TIFF's before buffer fills(I took all 3 in less than four seconds). Then it takes about 7 seconds to clear enough to take another, then another 7 seconds for another, etc. until the card fills.
The D7Hi is actually 3 frames/s until the buffer is full (@ 5 frames). The s602 took 3 frames in about four seconds, so it seems like the D7Hi is a lot (ie x4) faster! but then the raw file are smaller than tiff, and it all dependents on how fast the flash cards are when it has to flushed, just like on the Fuji...

Can you time how long it takes to capture all 5 frames on the s602 in tiff? Is it less than 2s like on the D7Hi before it has to flush? Otherwise this 'buffer' really doesn't help does it? ops:
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Old Apr 9, 2003, 10:22 PM   #13
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I really am not sure what that guy was talking about on the forum post you linked.

My 602 can capture 5 6mp TIFF files in 1 second in the burst mode. It can capture any of it file size or modes at that rate. Previously, I have bursted a watch as a test, and I consistantly captured 5 frames spanning 0 to 1.00 and 1.01 elapsed time. The time did not change for jpeg or tiff mode.

I was kind of wondering why this issue came up in the first place though. The camera does not exibit any problems providing the burst features it specifies in the manual, at least for me. Most often for action I use the last 5 function, where it captures 5Fps for up to 25 frames duration when you puch the shutter half down, then you push the shutter down all the way, it keeps the frame from the instant you dpressed the shutter fully and then 4 additinal frames back(1 second) for 5 frames total. Of course, I do not use TIFF mode in any normal circustance(nor do I know who would or why), that is just a waste of space and time for most purposes IMO.

-Chris
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Old Apr 9, 2003, 11:52 PM   #14
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Ok Ok. I found out what those quoted times are for. I normally use preview mode for my shots, so i can check each one before I save it in single shot mode. The camera does not buffer shots in preview mode (except when bursting) and automaticly writes to the card after each OK. I just switched to preview off and snapped off some single shots in tiff mode, indeed it now matches the times quoted by that person(in single mode). I did not realize it buffers the tiff shots in any single shot mode before.

-Chris
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Old Apr 10, 2003, 6:58 AM   #15
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So this is where you guys hang out
I went looking for the Buffer when I opened it up, hoping to maybe increase it. It's located under the CF assembly so it was very hard to read it, let alone remove it. I "believe" I saw a xxx128xxx marking, making it "possibly" 128MB, which would make sense since it's a 10/12 Bit A/D ??? I think I recall ?? BUT it does store at least 96MB from 5 TIFF's. I have to open it up again soon to fit a RF PCB so I'll verify that. There isn't any technical reason that they couldn't have "Flushed" the Buffer while Re-Filling it , I would dearly have loved that. And "I" often use 5fps on TIFF's. I love it. The write time sucks
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Old Apr 12, 2003, 5:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
I went looking for the Buffer when I opened it up, hoping to maybe increase it. It's located under the CF assembly so it was very hard to read it, let alone remove it. I "believe" I saw a xxx128xxx marking, making it "possibly" 128MB, which would make sense since it's a 10/12 Bit A/D ???
You've got to be careful, the sDRAM are usually marked as Mbits, so check out how many ICs there is, otherwise that's only 32M x 16, or 64 MByte (ie you'll need 2 chips for 128MByte!)
http://download.micron.com/pdf/datas...12msdram_f.pdf

To get to 96MB, one has to get lower density parts... and/or have three chips instead which I doubt for cost and board area constrain reason. It's either one or two xxx128xxx, so let us know when you open the camera up to rework that RF board again. 8)
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Old Apr 12, 2003, 6:05 PM   #17
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call fuji and try to get an answer out of them. nowhere do they state buffer size. the imager no matter how you look at it is a 3MP or 3M sensor. that will creat initally a smaller RAW image. then after that their little pixel data coupling tech borrows info from other adjoining pixels. pretty slick but heavy duty interpolation to get up to 6MP equivalent.

"3.1-megapixel Super CCD interpolates to produce 2,832 x 2,128-pixel images" quote from img res review.

"Nothing comes for free, though, and the way Pixel Data Coupling works is that resolution is traded for noise - each pixel in the final image is the result of light gathered from 4 pixels-worth of information from the imager ." quoted from image resource. so in short it is a 3 MP/S camera with a supercharger attached to it. lots of post processing there.

hopefully fuji will finally answer me next week. their tech support was rather stumped by that question. i will continue with this.

now as far as faster. a 7Hi will zoom faster just by the virtue it is manually operated like a slr twist an your there. it is more precise also for the same reason. no push button motor operated zoom here. the AF system i won't quote on but the 7Hi works better in low light better than some dslrs. the 2 stage system on the fuji relys on 2 seperate systems sounds complex. the shutter lag on a 7Hi is about 20% less the 602- 0.64 vs 0.80 which is strange since the 602 is a faster AF camera in normal light.

look it's a nice camera its design is quite good. it does a whole lot for a 3MP/S camera at a real good price point. but stating it a 6MP is stretching the marketing limits .

the 602 will not give you a RAW file like the S2 and the 7Hi will.

after going over the test specs they both have their high and low points fuji in large fine is 4 shots in the 7Hi its 6-7 shots.

we can go for hours with this in the long run again they are both fine cameras. there are more issue but in the long run i made my choice you have to make yours.

the 7Hi by virtue of giving you RAW file to work with gives you exactly what the lens/imager combination saw. no interpolation at all the you make the choice of what you want to turn it into.
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Old Apr 12, 2003, 6:30 PM   #18
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"3.1-megapixel Super CCD interpolates to produce 2,832 x 2,128-pixel images" quote from img res review.

Yes, it does interpoloate. But not the 3mp 'file' that you get in 3mp mode. I was very specific. Btw, ALL mosiac sensor systems interpolate(specivically, the individual mosiac color pattern to guess the overall image). The s602's 6mp prouduces 15 percent greater v and h density of captured data vs. the 3mp mode. Proven by target captures.

"Nothing comes for free, though, and the way Pixel Data Coupling works is that resolution is traded for noise - each pixel in the final image is the result of light gathered from 4 pixels-worth of information from the imager ." quoted from image resource. so in short it is a 3 MP/S camera with a supercharger attached to it. lots of post processing there.

Maybe you should do a little more research on the subject. This pertains to the high ISO modes of the 602 only. This doe snot apply to ISO 400 and below.

after going over the test specs they both have their high and low points fuji in large fine is 4 shots in the 7Hi its 6-7 shots.

Again, in burst mode the fuji shoots 5fps and buffers it, regardless of mode or size. The 4 shots buffered is only true for single shot mode of the fuji. You think this is a conspiracy to lie about the burst mode of the 602?

no interpolation at all the you make the choice of what you want to turn it into.

No interpolation? If you stand by this, you are not aware of how bayer mosiac systems operate. First off, the only poijt in this post was the burst mode/buffer, etc. Now you are off on a tangent concerened with image quality, etc. If you wish to discuss image quality points, etc. start a new thread in this fuji forum that this is the topic and I will address these points.

-Chris
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Old Apr 12, 2003, 7:26 PM   #19
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believe me this has been discussed to death in other forums. its down to simply you like yours and i like mine. it's whatever works for you we all drink our own brand of koolaid.
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Old Apr 12, 2003, 7:39 PM   #20
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believe me this has been discussed to death in other forums. its down to simply you like yours and i like mine. it's whatever works for you we all drink our own brand of koolaid.

Ok.

Have a nice day.

-Chris
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