Steve'sDigicams

learning_mode · Jun 3, 2006, 4:44 PM

Hi ya'll. :-DIm in the learning mode. I went to do a search on Gray Markets here and didn't find many details of exactly what it is in details. So here goes... I kinda sorta know what it is but ....:roll:

Can someone give us tips on how to recognize Gray Markets when doing searches like say... on Ebay? :-?

What happens if we chose to go Gray Market by accident or intent?Are we playing with fire? :flame:Whats thereal reason to stay away from Gray..or is it justa risk and gamble thing?

I know this link is one way to check out companies online http://www.resellerratings.com/ but are therethings to clue us to items could be GrayMarket?

Anyone have good or bad stories for GrayMarket buying?

aranoid: Ebay has some great prices and deals... are all of them too good to be true? Tell us your stories so we can learn from them....

So when is Gray ok?

:whack:

rjseeney · Jun 3, 2006, 5:08 PM

Gray market cameras are cameras that were not intended to be sold in the US. They are normally cheaper, and reputable dealers (Adorama, B&H, etc) will normally describe the item as being Gray market. Less reputable dealers probably will not, and when buying from Ebay, is buyer beware. You can always ask the seller, but they may not know, or may not tell you. The only real issue with gray market merch, is that the manufacturer will not repair it or honor any warranty. That's not to say you couldn't get it repaired locally, but obviously it would cost you.

If your willing to risk not having a warranty, then go ahead and buy gray market. I'm not so sure its a great idea unless you can get significant savings, which generally is not the case. To me, saving an extra $30-$40 isn't worth not having warranty coverage, or the ability to have the manufacturer repair my camera.

JimC · Jun 3, 2006, 5:29 PM

Some manufacturers will refuse to service a gray market camera, even if you are willing to pay them for the service.

Nikon USA and Nikon Canada both have this policy. In some cases, Canon has been known to "bend" it's rules on lenses. But, not necessarily for camera bodies. Ditto for some other manufacturers.

So, I'd only go Gray Market if you have money to spare, since you're risking not being able to get a camera repaired. Even a used U.S. model can be repaired by manufacturers in the region you bought it in, if they're not gray market (for a fee).

But, even if you're willing to pay for the service, you may not be able to get a camera serviced if it's gray market.

I wouldn't assume that you'd have great luck with a third party warranty policy either, since they may not be able to get the parts, even if they did have the expertise to service a camera, lens or related accessories.

Positive Story?

I bought a Konica Revio KD-510z from someone that brought two of them back from Japan in July 2003, about two weeks after they started shipping in Japan. I knew that I wouldn't be able to get it serviced in the U.S.

I've carried this camera with me everywhere in a pocket since mid July 2003, and I've lost count of the number of photos taken with it (I reset the count after around 8500 photos when messing around in the hidden service menus). I've reset it a few times since then, too.

It still works fine today.

This camera was later marketed as the Minolta DiMAGE G500 after Konica and Minolta merged to form Konica-Minolta.

learning_mode · Jun 3, 2006, 5:58 PM

So... since getting my DSLR on ebay recently...and pricing lenses on ebay this past week - over the past weekend I went to ebay andsearched forImaging Program tutorials and lessons.I hate reading manuals and think I would enjoy a CD Tutorial much better!!!

I know some of the things were too good to be true... "scam" but next question is..

Is there a "Gray Market" in this software field too? What is it and whatwould the downside be to purchasing in this field?

Just trying to "learn" without the :flame:"burn"....

:-Ddebby

learning_mode · Jun 6, 2006, 11:51 AM

On my adventure in the "Grey Market" for goodies in Ebay.... I hit my first big bust this AM. Rofl... When is a Scam funny? Ok it probably shouldn't be... but I love laffing at myself (happens alot)as long as the learning _lesson isn't too expensive.

Went to Ebay... andWON for a great deal @ 50centsplus 6.00 shipping"Mastering Photoshop CS" Basic Step By Step Training ...hmmm looking for author and dang if its not on there...Hmmmm...

By the way this past weekI have been doing a online Free Course here at http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/pho.../bllps5out.htm which is a greattutorial UNLESS you haveAdult ADD lol...you can do fine.. Im almost finished with it after about 120hrs or more...and felt I could do with a Video Instruction toConcrete it into thispoor brain.

Welp back to the story...got the package (forgot to check mail yesterday) and tore open the package...its brand new. Jumped to the computer opened the program ...went thru Lesson 1 in about 45min.. mostly knowing all from this online tutorial ..DIDI mention it was free??? and then ...then.. THEN....I can't find any exe file to get me to the next13 Chapters. Tried several ways to access CD and can't find that darn exe file.. nowhere.. nope..nada... So Iwent to the read me files... Ahh there's an email address for help... by now im laffing saying "Girlyou been screwed..this is what Grey Market is" LOL.. emailed the name in the readme file ... it said to if you needed help email me @...and yep the emaildemon or daemon came back... Ikinda knewwhen I saw the Yahoo address I was in the "Grey" LOL

ahh not to worry.. I just heard the snail mail lady honking outside.. My next program (I purchased 4 different sets from 4 different folks...from ebay last weekhas arrive) ran to open it and this program has a book called "Photoshop 7: Photgraphers' Guide by David Busch....A CD is with it .. course its all reading and the CD is for lessons but ... This onelooks great. Manual is over 300 pages.. looks legit...and I only paid20.00 totalw/shippingfor it... so my score is

1 Scam (Grey) 1 Legit

Hmmm my next two are coming from Australia... will let u know just for the heck of it... how I did .... ROFL

When is Grey ok? .... only when u can afford it to be! Ya'll have a great day now.. ya hear?

:| debby

learning_mode · Jun 15, 2006, 2:46 PM

Im backkkkkkkkkkk.............. do i sound like chuckie? Hey you photo nuts... my next adventure on when is grey ok...

welp this AM i got my 3rd order in from Ebay. It took em long enuff. I thought with all those books I was getting it musta been the reason it was longer shipping. I went to my mail box down at the end of the road and there was this TINY package inside that darn box... Immediately I wanted to bust out laffin.... :flame:burned again. here's the details of WHAT i thought I was getting.... would you have assumed it was real books and a CD ROM? I was sure hoping for at least one book lol.

Photo-shop Tutorials CD contains no less than 6 of thevery best tutorial guides, filters and plug-ins for use with Adobe Photoshop (version 6 or 7+).

[align=center]· 6 books on Photoshop versions 6 & 7 including: [/align]

[align=center]· Photoshop 6 Bible (1047 pages) [/align]

[align=center]· 220 Photoshop 6 Essential tips [/align]

[align=center]· Adobe Image Ready Quick reference Guide [/align]

[align=center]· Adobe Photoshop 7 User guide (549 pages) [/align]

[align=center]· Repairing digital photographs with Photoshop [/align]

[align=center]· Da Vinci's Photoshop tutorials [/align]

[align=center]A must for anybody interested in improving there Photoshop skills. [/align]

[align=center]FREE WITH YOUR TUTORIALS CD [/align]

[align=center]300 free quality images which include animals, buildings, backgrounds, cars, people etc, perfect for sharpening your Photoshop skills. [/align]

[align=center]500 Photoshop Plugin's - Add even more amazing effects to your creations. Just copy into your Plugins folder and their ready-to-use! [/align]

So no book... not one. I came in and put that cute little software disk into my drive and .... it was almost like the other disk I got ... not the program but just difficult to access. I tried several times to load... well nevermind I GOT BURNED!!!! again lol... actually the last burn workssomewhat ...this one was definately a bigger burn.. it cost me more. Thefinal ebay order #4 was mutually withdrawn when I couldn't get ebay to accept my paypal numbers. When is Grey ok? Lesson here is... only when you can afford it!! NOW i understand what they mean by buyer beware LOL.. doh!aranoid:

Ohhh by the way: This last burn #3 purchase.... the cd contained files but just took forever to load to view *sigh*and darn if the files look just (exactly) like these REY posted on another link here FREE http://s7.quicksharing.com/v/5810623...rials.zip.html YEP free! except this link Rey shared here had MORE of the tutorials than the CD i purchased for 20bucks LOL...

2 Scam (Grey) & 1 Legit 1 Withdrawn
Now for my next trick...watch me disappear :whack:totally humilated

~poof~

rjseeney · Jun 15, 2006, 3:11 PM

I wouldn't refer to the software you unfortunately purchased as gray market. As far as I know, no "gray" market exists for software. Gray market photographic equipment is legitimate, fully functional suff.Gray market is not a scam and not necessarily a bad thing it's just camera/lenses not intended for sale in the USA and thus not covered by any warranty. This software is just pure junk....a scam as you have mentioned. By calling this stuff gray market, you are giving a gray market a bad name

. Scams and gray market are not the same thing.

learning_mode · Jun 15, 2006, 4:02 PM

Awww thanks... Appreciate the lessonrjseeney

scam...dang...

Say.. I got this great deal on tutorials for sale LOL :blah:

~debby~

rey · Jun 16, 2006, 8:10 PM

Hey Debby,
If you have more money to burn:G checkout Ron Reznick's videos. I'm currently reading up about it and may get it soon.
http://www.sureshotsystem.com/index.html

-------

To All:

If anyone here has used it, please share your experience, especially how it would apply to those without pro-level camera or pro-level software ( I have Nikon D50 and PS Elements). Does he teach Zone System-type methods? Do I have to have top level camera and lenses to benefit from his teachings?

Thanks.

amazingthailand · Jun 17, 2006, 7:38 AM

Another thing to watch out for with buying software on ebay, is that it may be a pirated edition. This is an illegal copy of the software in question.

Search the internet and you will find many sites that offer free instructions, tips and downloads.

Just to reiterate: GREY market refers only to hardware (camera bodies, lenses and accessories). It is quite legitimate and legal. As mentioned, grey merchandise is merchandise that has been imported directly from the manufacturer, or some other overseas distributer, bypassing the official distributer in this country. B&H used to offer their own warranty on grey market items they sold (not sure if they still do).

Jun 15, 2006, 3:11 PM	#7
rjseeney Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky Posts: 2,398	I wouldn't refer to the software you unfortunately purchased as gray market. As far as I know, no "gray" market exists for software. Gray market photographic equipment is legitimate, fully functional suff.Gray market is not a scam and not necessarily a bad thing it's just camera/lenses not intended for sale in the USA and thus not covered by any warranty. This software is just pure junk....a scam as you have mentioned. By calling this stuff gray market, you are giving a gray market a bad name. Scams and gray market are not the same thing.

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Jun 3, 2006, 4:44 PM	#1
learning_mode Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 105	Hi ya'll. :-DIm in the learning mode. I went to do a search on Gray Markets here and didn't find many details of exactly what it is in details. So here goes... I kinda sorta know what it is but ....:roll: Can someone give us tips on how to recognize Gray Markets when doing searches like say... on Ebay? :-? What happens if we chose to go Gray Market by accident or intent?Are we playing with fire? :flame:Whats thereal reason to stay away from Gray..or is it justa risk and gamble thing? I know this link is one way to check out companies online http://www.resellerratings.com/ but are therethings to clue us to items could be GrayMarket? Anyone have good or bad stories for GrayMarket buying? aranoid: Ebay has some great prices and deals... are all of them too good to be true? Tell us your stories so we can learn from them.... So when is Gray ok? :whack:

Jun 3, 2006, 5:08 PM	#2
rjseeney Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky Posts: 2,398	Gray market cameras are cameras that were not intended to be sold in the US. They are normally cheaper, and reputable dealers (Adorama, B&H, etc) will normally describe the item as being Gray market. Less reputable dealers probably will not, and when buying from Ebay, is buyer beware. You can always ask the seller, but they may not know, or may not tell you. The only real issue with gray market merch, is that the manufacturer will not repair it or honor any warranty. That's not to say you couldn't get it repaired locally, but obviously it would cost you. If your willing to risk not having a warranty, then go ahead and buy gray market. I'm not so sure its a great idea unless you can get significant savings, which generally is not the case. To me, saving an extra $30-$40 isn't worth not having warranty coverage, or the ability to have the manufacturer repair my camera.

Jun 3, 2006, 5:29 PM	#3
JimC Administrator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Savannah, GA (USA) Posts: 22,378	Some manufacturers will refuse to service a gray market camera, even if you are willing to pay them for the service. Nikon USA and Nikon Canada both have this policy. In some cases, Canon has been known to "bend" it's rules on lenses. But, not necessarily for camera bodies. Ditto for some other manufacturers. So, I'd only go Gray Market if you have money to spare, since you're risking not being able to get a camera repaired. Even a used U.S. model can be repaired by manufacturers in the region you bought it in, if they're not gray market (for a fee). But, even if you're willing to pay for the service, you may not be able to get a camera serviced if it's gray market. I wouldn't assume that you'd have great luck with a third party warranty policy either, since they may not be able to get the parts, even if they did have the expertise to service a camera, lens or related accessories. Positive Story? I bought a Konica Revio KD-510z from someone that brought two of them back from Japan in July 2003, about two weeks after they started shipping in Japan. I knew that I wouldn't be able to get it serviced in the U.S. I've carried this camera with me everywhere in a pocket since mid July 2003, and I've lost count of the number of photos taken with it (I reset the count after around 8500 photos when messing around in the hidden service menus). I've reset it a few times since then, too. It still works fine today. This camera was later marketed as the Minolta DiMAGE G500 after Konica and Minolta merged to form Konica-Minolta.

Jun 3, 2006, 5:58 PM	#4
learning_mode Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 105	So... since getting my DSLR on ebay recently...and pricing lenses on ebay this past week - over the past weekend I went to ebay andsearched forImaging Program tutorials and lessons.I hate reading manuals and think I would enjoy a CD Tutorial much better!!! I know some of the things were too good to be true... "scam" but next question is.. Is there a "Gray Market" in this software field too? What is it and whatwould the downside be to purchasing in this field? Just trying to "learn" without the :flame:"burn".... :-Ddebby

Jun 6, 2006, 11:51 AM	#5
learning_mode Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 105	On my adventure in the "Grey Market" for goodies in Ebay.... I hit my first big bust this AM. Rofl... When is a Scam funny? Ok it probably shouldn't be... but I love laffing at myself (happens alot)as long as the learning _lesson isn't too expensive. Went to Ebay... andWON for a great deal @ 50centsplus 6.00 shipping"Mastering Photoshop CS" Basic Step By Step Training ...hmmm looking for author and dang if its not on there...Hmmmm... By the way this past weekI have been doing a online Free Course here at http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/pho.../bllps5out.htm which is a greattutorial UNLESS you haveAdult ADD lol...you can do fine.. Im almost finished with it after about 120hrs or more...and felt I could do with a Video Instruction toConcrete it into thispoor brain. Welp back to the story...got the package (forgot to check mail yesterday) and tore open the package...its brand new. Jumped to the computer opened the program ...went thru Lesson 1 in about 45min.. mostly knowing all from this online tutorial ..DIDI mention it was free??? and then ...then.. THEN....I can't find any exe file to get me to the next13 Chapters. Tried several ways to access CD and can't find that darn exe file.. nowhere.. nope..nada... So Iwent to the read me files... Ahh there's an email address for help... by now im laffing saying "Girlyou been screwed..this is what Grey Market is" LOL.. emailed the name in the readme file ... it said to if you needed help email me @...and yep the emaildemon or daemon came back... Ikinda knewwhen I saw the Yahoo address I was in the "Grey" LOL ahh not to worry.. I just heard the snail mail lady honking outside.. My next program (I purchased 4 different sets from 4 different folks...from ebay last weekhas arrive) ran to open it and this program has a book called "Photoshop 7: Photgraphers' Guide by David Busch....A CD is with it .. course its all reading and the CD is for lessons but ... This onelooks great. Manual is over 300 pages.. looks legit...and I only paid20.00 totalw/shippingfor it... so my score is 1 Scam (Grey) 1 Legit Hmmm my next two are coming from Australia... will let u know just for the heck of it... how I did .... ROFL When is Grey ok? .... only when u can afford it to be! Ya'll have a great day now.. ya hear? :\| debby

Jun 15, 2006, 2:46 PM	#6
learning_mode Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 105	Im backkkkkkkkkkk.............. do i sound like chuckie? Hey you photo nuts... my next adventure on when is grey ok... welp this AM i got my 3rd order in from Ebay. It took em long enuff. I thought with all those books I was getting it musta been the reason it was longer shipping. I went to my mail box down at the end of the road and there was this TINY package inside that darn box... Immediately I wanted to bust out laffin.... :flame:burned again. here's the details of WHAT i thought I was getting.... would you have assumed it was real books and a CD ROM? I was sure hoping for at least one book lol. Photo-shop Tutorials CD contains no less than 6 of thevery best tutorial guides, filters and plug-ins for use with Adobe Photoshop (version 6 or 7+). [align=center]· 6 books on Photoshop versions 6 & 7 including: [/align] [align=center]· Photoshop 6 Bible (1047 pages) [/align] [align=center]· 220 Photoshop 6 Essential tips [/align] [align=center]· Adobe Image Ready Quick reference Guide [/align] [align=center]· Adobe Photoshop 7 User guide (549 pages) [/align] [align=center]· Repairing digital photographs with Photoshop [/align] [align=center]· Da Vinci's Photoshop tutorials [/align] [align=center]A must for anybody interested in improving there Photoshop skills. [/align] [align=center]FREE WITH YOUR TUTORIALS CD [/align] [align=center]300 free quality images which include animals, buildings, backgrounds, cars, people etc, perfect for sharpening your Photoshop skills. [/align] [align=center]500 Photoshop Plugin's - Add even more amazing effects to your creations. Just copy into your Plugins folder and their ready-to-use! [/align] So no book... not one. I came in and put that cute little software disk into my drive and .... it was almost like the other disk I got ... not the program but just difficult to access. I tried several times to load... well nevermind I GOT BURNED!!!! again lol... actually the last burn workssomewhat ...this one was definately a bigger burn.. it cost me more. Thefinal ebay order #4 was mutually withdrawn when I couldn't get ebay to accept my paypal numbers. When is Grey ok? Lesson here is... only when you can afford it!! NOW i understand what they mean by buyer beware LOL.. doh!aranoid: Ohhh by the way: This last burn #3 purchase.... the cd contained files but just took forever to load to view sighand darn if the files look just (exactly) like these REY posted on another link here FREE http://s7.quicksharing.com/v/5810623...rials.zip.html YEP free! except this link Rey shared here had MORE of the tutorials than the CD i purchased for 20bucks LOL... 2 Scam (Grey) & 1 Legit 1 Withdrawn Now for my next trick...watch me disappear :whack:totally humilated ~poof~

Jun 15, 2006, 4:02 PM	#8
learning_mode Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 105	Awww thanks... Appreciate the lessonrjseeney scam...dang... Say.. I got this great deal on tutorials for sale LOL :blah: ~debby~

Jun 16, 2006, 8:10 PM	#9
rey Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 949	Hey Debby, If you have more money to burn:G checkout Ron Reznick's videos. I'm currently reading up about it and may get it soon. http://www.sureshotsystem.com/index.html ------- To All: If anyone here has used it, please share your experience, especially how it would apply to those without pro-level camera or pro-level software ( I have Nikon D50 and PS Elements). Does he teach Zone System-type methods? Do I have to have top level camera and lenses to benefit from his teachings? Thanks.

Jun 17, 2006, 7:38 AM	#10
amazingthailand Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 851	Another thing to watch out for with buying software on ebay, is that it may be a pirated edition. This is an illegal copy of the software in question. Search the internet and you will find many sites that offer free instructions, tips and downloads. Just to reiterate: GREY market refers only to hardware (camera bodies, lenses and accessories). It is quite legitimate and legal. As mentioned, grey merchandise is merchandise that has been imported directly from the manufacturer, or some other overseas distributer, bypassing the official distributer in this country. B&H used to offer their own warranty on grey market items they sold (not sure if they still do).