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photosbyvito Feb 11, 2004 9:11 PM

How much? (all equipment?)
 
ok i am considering taking classes and such for becoming a photographer......i was just wondering how much money all the equipment would be to buy (lenses flashes reflectors tripods and stuff like that)
i'm guess around 20,000 or more.... am i wrong?(i hope lol)
Is it normal to pay 4,000.00 dollars to pay for a 600 or 800mm zoom lens?(see the thread in lenses(i think it is there))

also
......how much should i charge per print..
also
.....i've taken some pictures (beautiful if i may say so myself) of a reservior near my house.
how much would i charge for the "rights" to the pictures? or do i have to get them copyrighted or something first?

thanks :)
just some information i don't know (obviously lol) that i would like to know .........

eric s Feb 11, 2004 10:01 PM

How much the gear costs depends on what type of photography you are going to do. You only hint at that with your comment about the shot of a reservior. Please say exactly what type of photography you are going to do.

A 600mm f4 (from Canon or Nikon) is over $7,000USD. Yes, that is the "normal" price. If you don't know how to find a reputable store to lookup a lens price, then you have some serious homework to do before you consider getting into the business.

There are several books you should read, here are a few:
"Photography: Focus on Profit"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...774244-9523360

"John Shaw's Business of Nature Photography: A Professional's Guide to Marketing and Managing a Successful Nature Photography Business"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

"2004 Photographer's Market: 2,000 Places to Sell Your Photographs (Photographer's Market, 2004)"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

You should also read this article:
http://www.naturephotographers.net/a.../dw1203-1.html

Taken from a different forum I go to:
Quote:

Fotoquote: http://www.fotoquote.com/

Jim Pickerell's Negotiating Stock Photo Prices: http://www.pickphoto.com/

Hindsight's Photo Price Guide: http://www.hindsightltd.com/products/PriceGuide.html

There is a wealth of information on the EP website: http://www.editorialphotographers.com/
Your pictures are copyrighted by definiton. The law has changed so that the act of taking the picture copyrights them. Of course, how well that will stand up in court is another matter. If you have to ask this question, you should do more research yourself. You might consider asking the question here research (and I guess it is, to an extent) but its really asking others to do the research for you.

Also, take business classes. If you become a photographer with your own studio, you are running a business. I have read time and time again about how the well run, well advertised shop beats out the great photographer who can't run the business. Every time. So get good at taking the pictures, but get even better at running the business.

And if you really, really want to sell landscape pictures, you probably want to use medium or large format. You can do it with 35mm, but you'll be limiting the size you can reproduce the picture, and one of the markets for landscapes is large posters (which you won't be able to do with 35mm.) A digicam or digital 35mm still serves a purpose, and they are great learning cameras. I'm not discounting them. But landscape work is (partially) what medium and large format was made for.

We are mostly a bunch of amatures here who enjoy taking pictures. You are looking for a forum of and for professionals. I would recommend you sign up and read lots at:
www.naturephotographers.net

Those people are mostly pros, and it shows. The discussions there are completely different than what you see here.... I find both places educational.

Eric

PeterP Feb 11, 2004 10:21 PM

That Focus on Profit book is very good, it also comes with PhotoByte a photo business management program on CD :)

You can also look at
American Society of Media Photographers
Professional Photographers of America
North American Nature Photography Association
Edtorial Photographers
Canadian Photographers Network


Some of these require proof you are a professional before granting access to their forums. At least one is "photo business only" discussions and will throw you off if you try to ask any photography equipment and "how to make pictures" questions.

PeterP Feb 11, 2004 10:33 PM

Re: How much? (all equipment?)
 
Just wondering what places you are looking at for courses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by photosbyvito
ok i am considering taking classes and such for becoming a photographer......


photosbyvito Feb 12, 2004 10:45 AM

wow.......thanks guys.......i will look for those books!

i would LIKE to do Nature and Wildlife photography (that cuts out reflectors and umbrellas) but includes a big zoom.....I HAVE done portraits but only for my family and my pastor (of my church of course :) ) and i didn't know how to set them up or anything!(i have a LOT to learn) i really don't like taking pictures of people......and i don't want to do weddings especially (too much pressure lol) but i guess i can't really be picky when doing a business like this......

answering peters question........My grandfather was telling me about a school in Piscataway that taught photography and graphic arts to make brochures.........Catherine Gibbs(anyone heard of it?)
and that sounded pretty good because i like making graphics and stuff like that........there are also colleges around that i could take classes from and i think a vocational school........
btw....you said i should take a business class too?

well.....thanks for all your help! i appreciate it! thanks for doing some research for me ;)

PeterP Feb 12, 2004 11:03 AM

Yes, some business courses definitely.
Thats the trouble with switching to doing a business yourself, the business side(marketing, promotion, sales, record keeping, etc) can quickly expand to take up huge amounts of time, leaving little for actual shooting :( .

The John Shaw material is very good for nature/landscape work.
I also like Boyd Nortons The art of Outdoor Photography I use his NSCS pro 3.0 database to manage my library and submissions.
And my favourites are Galen Rowel's books but they are more about image making than running it as a business.

photosbyvito Feb 12, 2004 2:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterP
Yes, some business courses definitely.
Thats the trouble with switching to doing a business yourself, the business side(marketing, promotion, sales, record keeping, etc) can quickly expand to take up huge amounts of time, leaving little for actual shooting :( .

The John Shaw material is very good for nature/landscape work.
I also like Boyd Nortons The art of Outdoor Photography I use his NSCS pro 3.0 database to manage my library and submissions.
And my favourites are Galen Rowel's books but they are more about image making than running it as a business.

thanks :)
i'll look into these books......i've seen that market book eric was talking about in the library so i'll take it out.......does that book say how to sell them too? you know wat i'll just read it lol


the problem with digital photography is,
you have to print them yourself....lol....which is something i don't do often enought cuz i don't really have the fastest printer......it takes a couple hours to print like 20-30 8''10''s which is pretty much the only ones i print lol
so far i've only sold 2 pictures (at a little thing my mom set up with a bunch of stuff like Creative Memories Mary Kay and stuff like that) but she got some good comments about them (i wasn't able to be there)
actually i did do a portrait job too.....(doubt i charged enough though) it was something like 20 dollars for a couple 5''7'' a bunch of wallet sizes and some 3''5''s

btw.....how much do you guys charge for your pics.......? i guess i could research somewhere ,but i don't know where to look....-search engines?-

ok i'm done ;)
thanks

eric s Feb 12, 2004 2:46 PM

You don't have to print your own digital pictures. You don't say where you're located, so I can only say broad things. But it sounds like you are near a large city if a local library as the Photographer's Market book. That isn't a book for the average person.

Most major cities have a photo lab dedicated to professionals. This is what you'll look for because of the size of the prints you do. Places like WalMart or Costco can to good smaller prints (they usually have very good equipment, but not very knowledgeable staff.) And smaller in this case is 8 1/2x11 (not exactly small!)

You'll to get a color profile for their printer so the image on your screen will match the output of their printer. If you contact a quality place, they'll know what you're talking about if you say that you want an ICC profile for their printer. You should also get your monitor profiled. You can either pay someone to do it, buy the equipment to do it yourself, or do as well as you can via software. It is possible to do very well for free, but you can also not do it well... all depends on you and how do you do.

And definitely take a small business course. Even if you only take one, it will let you know if you like the idea of running a business and all the issues involved. It is not easy, but it can be rewarding.

Eric

photosbyvito Feb 12, 2004 3:05 PM

ok well first off.....i'm 15 lol
i live in New Jersey so i have many libraries and i'd have to check but i could probably find a place to print from......sry i didn't notice i didn't have that there.......i would LIKE to become a pro photographer eventually lol
and i have no job (i work for my dad every once in a while) so it is easier said than done for me to calibrate my monitor and all this stuff........
thanks :)

eric s Feb 12, 2004 9:39 PM

Then you'll have to do what I did. Get some free software off the web and calibrate it with that. It isn't great, but it isn't bad. I've got my monitor to the point where if I add +20 brightness and print it, it looks like how it does on the monitor (without the extra brightness, of course.)

Not the best way to do it, and it will probably be different if I used different paper.... but it's better than nothing.

I believe I used this one:
http://epaperpress.com/monitorcal/

But there are others.

When I'm printing for me, "exact" doesn't matter. I just want it to look good. But when you're taking someone elses money for the work, then you have to do it to their standards... not yours. Then things like color correctness matters more.

I'm sure you can find good photo labs in NJ, the question is one of cost (isn't is always.) The Costco's of the world are really cheap and can produce good results, but its sometimes hit or miss because they will adjust your picture behind your back. That is the tradeoff for the less knowledgeable staff.

Eric

PrmseKpr Feb 13, 2004 8:18 AM

I too am wanting to concentrate on doing professional photography. I am talking it up with people and getting the word out by word-of-mouth that I have a website PhotosByNeal.com. It is still in the beginning stage and I have much work to do on the site. Right now the link just points to a store I have setup on CafePress.com. I hope to do some more work this weekend. I am also working on a business plan with a friend from church.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric s
"2004 Photographer's Market: 2,000 Places to Sell Your Photographs (Photographer's Market, 2004)"

I just ordered this book on Monday and hopefully it will be here today. I have heard good things about this book. You might also want to check out Overstock.com, they have many photography books cheaper than Amazon, including the 2004 Photographer's Market

I have been looking in my library, but I live in a small town and I think most of the books are a little old.

IMO, it's good that you are setting out to do this while you are young! I am about ..... years older than you and I wish that I got started in photography earlier! The advances in equipment will make your job so much easier. I've always been interested in photography, but was scared off by the complexity of the camera. DigiCams have re-kindled that inner photography fire for me and I am looking forward to all I can learn!

photosbyvito Feb 14, 2004 7:56 PM

hope you do well with your business :)

i've entered one of my pictures in the picture.com photo contest for amateurs......i've gotten a couple of letters.....one telling me they want to publish it in a book (lol they also want me to buy it ;) ) and one asking if i would go to a photography convention.....unfortunately the convention would cost over 600 dollars for me and i wouldn't go by myself.....lol.....in your opinion.....do you think they actually care about my picture? or are just using me to get money (buying the book and such)?

plz answer honestly ! i would like to hear your opinion......

cowboy43 Feb 14, 2004 8:31 PM

You got the right idea, I have about 4 of those around here somewhere. Just another way to get some cash from you, nothing wrong with it if you wan't to buy the book.

photosbyvito Feb 14, 2004 9:08 PM

thanks....that is wat i thought :)
maybe i'll win the contest (i wish lol)
i don't think i have to buy anything to win......or participate or anything

but wat i don't get about the convention......is y would you have to pay for a concert.....or midnight parties(lol i'm 15 remember)
doesn't make sense for me to pay for something i wouldn't go to anyway!

PrmseKpr Feb 17, 2004 12:52 PM

Hey Vito,

Yes, they just want your money. Years ago I received something in the mail saying that they would list me in "Who's Who" if I just sent them some $$$$.

I ran a website that was listed in a trade publication. They not only listed me (for free) but also sent me copies of the book (for free). So, there are legit publications out there. I see no reason to enter a contest that you have to pay for, unless of course it is a very well known contest that others can testify to its validity.

photosbyvito Feb 17, 2004 2:03 PM

well lol this is "The International Library of Photography" or something like that lol
sounds official.......i might be wrong though.....i'm entered in the contest and that is it so far lol
haven't bought anything from it........

PrmseKpr Feb 17, 2004 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photosbyvito
well lol this is "The International Library of Photography" or something like that lol
sounds official.......i might be wrong though.....i'm entered in the contest and that is it so far lol
haven't bought anything from it........

You might want to read this:

http://tinyurl.com/2shbz

and this:

http://tinyurl.com/2ws95

eric s Feb 17, 2004 2:44 PM

They could just be getting you to enter to steal the picture.

I've a friend who is a pro who talks about being aproached at trade shows being asked for a CD of his work. Turns out they asked everyone there and were just looking to take the pics and use them as they wished (with no compensation, of course.)

Eric

PrmseKpr Feb 17, 2004 8:11 PM

Also check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/35dh6

photosbyvito Feb 17, 2004 8:39 PM

hmmm maybe i shouldn't have entered the contest lol

PrmseKpr Feb 19, 2004 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photosbyvito
hmmm maybe i shouldn't have entered the contest lol

Vito,

I finally received my copy of 2004 Photographer's Market and they have a list of photo contests in the back of the book. You might want to check this book out. It has a list of publications that accept photos and how they want them submitted, who to contact, etc...

photosbyvito Feb 19, 2004 12:36 PM

thanks :) i put it on hold at the library already :)
i got the 2003 one once.....(didn't really use it a whole lot back then lol mainly because i only had my camera for a couple weeks)


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