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-   -   whats up with apple? (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/general-discussion-11/whats-up-apple-17917/)

bradg Dec 22, 2003 9:23 PM

whats up with apple?
 
how come most of the pros i talk to use ipod's?
do i just have weird freinds or is there something i don't know?

informativetoo Dec 22, 2003 10:48 PM

Brad,

From what I gather, many graphics/3-D users use Apple. I do believe Macs are more stable than IBMS.
Neither are they heavily targeted by virus/trojan writers either.

I would ask your Mac friends why they chose the Mac, they could best tell you.

normc Dec 23, 2003 7:24 AM

Me TO
 
I think this is an excellent question. I have been a Windows user for years but because of the never ending problems with this OS, the added cost of Apple systems is looking better all the time. I spend more time fixing the OS with patches and updates than using my extensive software. With each new edition of Windows we are promised something better and then we get a new set of problems? I have 4 Windows systems now and will be purchasing an Apple system very soon. Much of the Microsoft software is restricted to use on a single computer. If you have a family with three children, you need three copies of " whatever" to operate on each computer, or you can go out and buy three new computers with the software already loaded. I don't know if Apple is a better over all deal or not but I for one will be looking into it.

BillDrew Dec 23, 2003 7:56 AM

Re: Me TO
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by normc
... I don't know if Apple is a better over all deal or not but I for one will be looking into it.

I'd be interested in your conclusion. Haven't looked recently, but it used to be (5 years ago) that Macs were much more expensive than PCs. I think the difference is less now, but not sure how much less.

I think issues like ease of use, stability, ... should be ignored in the price. Likely those are real issues, but their value depends on the specific user, e.g., a technogeek wouldn't value them while a technophobe would value them very highly. Well worth noting those issues, but pretty much impossible to attach a specific price.

normc Dec 23, 2003 9:32 AM

Maybe you are right?
 
I have used computers since the 1960's and have found that it is typical for companies to bring products to market with the expectation that customers would in effect do the "engineering". While I agree that a certain amount of this is necessary it becomes a real question in the purchasing of systems. This is also not just a problem for individuals. In the past I have purchased hundreds of thousands worth of CAD equipment using public funds, If something did not work. we woulld have to wait until NEXT years budget for something else? And try explaining this to the people who provide the funds and the students who need to use the systems.

Microsoft does not have the trust of many of its customers.

Darrell1 Dec 23, 2003 9:38 AM

6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

My business owns both Mac and PC's. We used to be exclusively Mac based and in 1997, started using PC's.

They are both the same, only different!! In other words, they both have problems with reliability and they both run Photoshop the same. The only reason to own one machine over the other is if a software package is only available for one and not the other.

We use Final Cut Pro on the Mac (not available on the PC), yet there are alot of software packages available on the PC and not the Mac.

Bottom line: If you want reliability, only install NECESSARY software. I have one computer for "general use" and the others are only for their main purpose. In my business, we edit alot of video. Those computers do not surf the web, word process, etc...

Darrell

eric s Dec 23, 2003 10:13 AM

One advantage that the Mac has (that I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't fixed) is the support at the OS level for profiling your monitor and printer. Yes, PhotoShop has support for this built in... but it really should be an OS wide thing. Apple got that right, and I don't really understand why MS doesn't fix this deficienty in their product. It is one of the reasons why many graphics shops still use Macs. What is on the screen is what will come out of the printer. Every time.

Years ago I read an analysis of the cost of use of Windows and the Mac. This was maybe around NT 4.0 had recently come out. Maybe earlier. The study said that over the long term the Mac was cheaper to maintain and use. I have no idea if this has evened out, as I haven't used a Mac in many years... I generally like them but I use some software that is only on Windows.

By now, functionally they are basically the same. Look at the software and what experience you have. Switching will cost a lot both in the short term (software/hardware replacement) and in the long term (learning how to maintain the system.)

Eric

normc Dec 23, 2003 12:20 PM

OK
 
Since we have some users experienced with both systems then let's narrow the question as to which is better for the internet?

ursa Dec 23, 2003 6:12 PM

I have an iMac at home (which i'm writing on right now) so I'll add some points. I got a Mac because for digital photos and digital video windows is just catching up now.

Mac's are used extensively in the artistic (layup, editings, etc.) community and in the educational sector. But which is better, it depends what you want to do.

The price difference is small to non-existent anymore - my iMac with Firewire, LCD screen and DVD burner cost less :shock: than an equivalent Dell did when I bought it. But in addition to the hardware I got a machine that has worked almost all the time for two years straight. I doubt that a Windows XP machine would have done that with an addon firewire card and a DVD burner - let's call it driver conflict heck.

I do think that stability is an issue that everyone should consider. I've spent many more hours trouble shooting my mother's laptop than my iMac and we both have about the same software loads.

that said - my computer isn't upgradeable except for RAM, no big deal for me.

Why an iPod? It's a great MP3 player and a pretty good sized hard drive too. Photo types can 'take' their work with them to the client, home etc. all on the iPod. I use mine to hold my contacts and calendar too. It's very slick and uploads very fast...

There are even CF card readers that will connect directly to an iPod - a nice small way to download photos without a laptop.

As for the internet - unfortunately many corporate websites assume that you're browsing with internet explorer 6.x and do a poor job of keeping to web standards. It's a problem to look at things not to create things.

I will say that I find the iPhoto software which is free with a Mac to be likely the easist archival / digital photo storage / basic photo editor around. If you're using jpeg's it sucks in the photos and it's easy to print off pictures or even build a simple photo webpage (check mine out - it's a two minute operation to do it).

bcoultry Dec 23, 2003 7:11 PM

ursa--what's a "loonie?"

PrmseKpr Dec 23, 2003 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcoultry
ursa--what's a "loonie?"

It's what you get when Barb hasn't taken her meds. ;)

It's a Canadian dollar coin, it has a loon on the back of the coin. It's takes two loonies to make a toonie! :)

bcoultry Dec 23, 2003 7:44 PM

PrmseKpr: :evil:

PrmseKpr Dec 23, 2003 7:46 PM

:P

bcoultry Dec 23, 2003 8:08 PM

You win.

Darrell1 Dec 23, 2003 11:12 PM

Where is this going? What's better, Ford or Chevy? Both types of drivers will have equally compelling reasons why one is better than the other. They will both have horror stories about problems they had with one but not the other...

Darrell

bradg Dec 24, 2003 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell1
What's better, Ford or Chevy?

Dodge.

ursa Dec 24, 2003 3:29 PM

Barb,

a loonie is a coin that's a bit larger than a quarter. Those flowers were about the only thing blooming when I took those pictures.

Darrel:

where is this going? you're right it doesn't matter much between Wintel PC and Mac. The most important piece of equipment is the user of the camera, not the camera nor the computer...

I'd put computer behind brand of coffee you use and ahead of the coffee maker on a list of what's important. :D

hope I didn't come across as a some type of Mac evangelist, didn't mean to...just trying to explain what iPod's can do and why they're a handy thing to have.

bcoultry Dec 24, 2003 4:26 PM

Thank you ursa. As you can tell, I wandered amongst your photos, and I was taken with those little flowers, but then I got wondering just how little they really were. "PrmseKpr" was a certain amount of help, but I think he'd gotten into some eggnog.

Livebait Dec 25, 2003 2:24 AM

Re: whats up with apple?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bradg
how come most of the pros i talk to use ipod's?
do i just have weird freinds or is there something i don't know?

After reading most of the posts I am a little confused... you asked why most pros use IPODS not imacs? right? IPODS are an incredible portable storage device..10,20,30,40gb..basically a portable harddrive. Long used for their MP3 abilities they are also very useful for storage of numerous digital photos.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/

bradg Dec 25, 2003 1:32 PM

ok, so lets re-phrase the question

Why do most pros use apple insted of pc?

i am not a mac user so i just assumed :oops:

you should never assume, do you know what happens when you assume?

don't know? ok, lets break down the word assume

assume :arrow: ass u me

now, just stick - make,an, of, and - in there and you get what happens when you assume

do ya get it?

good, next time you assume remember, you will make an ass out of u and me :wink:

(thats an old one)

bradg Dec 25, 2003 1:33 PM

don't you just love how it changes my words around?

PeterP Dec 25, 2003 3:34 PM

IBM's? Whats IBM got to do with the PC now-a-days? :twisted:
It is Intel(or AMD) hardware running the Microsoft Windows operating system you are talking about, refered to as wintel.
I have AMD hardware running Linux Operating system and the hardware seem stable enough.

My laptop running windows is another story. :(

As for viruses, the mac and Linux OS's are not target as much because the script-kiddies churning out that stuff get a much bigger target audience with windows users. They probably don't know very much about the other OS either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by informativetoo
Brad,

From what I gather, many graphics/3-D users use Apple. I do believe Macs are more stable than IBMS.
Neither are they heavily targeted by virus/trojan writers either.

I would ask your Mac friends why they chose the Mac, they could best tell you.


macleod76 Dec 26, 2003 6:53 PM

Quote:

As for viruses, the mac and Linux OS's are not target as much because the script-kiddies churning out that stuff get a much bigger target audience with windows users. They probably don't know very much about the other OS either.
Linux and macs tend to act as carriers for virus for pcs. And yer also right in the fact that its the user base with pcs. more bang for the buck you could say:)

I've got friends that love macs and can't stand pcs, and vice versa.
They both have there pluses and minuses, but they both do the same job anymore.

FuzzyChicken Dec 26, 2003 8:14 PM

Well just to renforce, Mac's are used in the artistic community, such as editing videos, photos, etc. beacuse the software usually comes out first on macs and is sometimes only found for macs. PC's are slowly catching up to this, I think. Also Macs tend to be more reliable than PCs, but with XP its pretty close. As for the ipod it is the best mp3 player around, it is reliable, well built, doubles as a portable HD, uses firewire which is just as fast as USB 2.0. Works for both PC and Macs and you can upload your MS Outlook calendar & contacts. I hope this helps. I almost forgot, apple just introduced their G5 which is a 64 bit processor, which cna handle software in both 32 & 64 bits. Cool stuff!

PeterP Dec 26, 2003 8:30 PM

:) Ah so they are catching up to the newest AMD Athlon™ 64 FX-51 Processor recently added to the current lineup of Athlon 64bit processors.

They also run new 64 and existing 32 bit applications. Be a while before Microsoft® Windows 64-Bit Edition for AMD64 currently in beta is generally available, so windows users will have to wait a while or switch to Linux :twisted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyChicken
I almost forgot, apple just introduced their G5 which is a 64 bit processor, which cna handle software in both 32 & 64 bits. Cool stuff!


bradg Jan 9, 2004 8:06 PM

just found this, it is worth a look, be shure to click the comparison http://www.sportsshooter.com/message....html?tid=6673

UrbanPhotos Jan 9, 2004 9:30 PM

I'm pretty satisfied with Windows 2000. My computer is very stable. One of the big problems with Windows is that it's not as user-friendly as it appears to be. It takes some knowledge to keep a Windows system running stably.

That said, I used a Mac a few days ago, and it was pretty cool. I'd think about getting one for my next computer, especially if I was looking for a laptop.

blinblue Jan 9, 2004 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradg
just found this, it is worth a look, be shure to click the comparison http://www.sportsshooter.com/message....html?tid=6673

Kinda surprising, only a few tests did the Apple computers do better. So far I have counted 10 or so tests that had a humanly noticable difference.

And windows XP is amazing stable. I have had a very few amounts of crashes that resulted in any lost data (and even then it was very minimal). I have used a PC computer heavly for a week without ever restarting it. Although I have never used a Mac, so I can't really compare. But I don't see how I could need it much better...

EasyRay Jan 10, 2004 10:34 AM

Hasn't had a problem in a week.Thats really funny.I haven't had to restart my system in two years except for software installs that were required and maintenance I do on a monthly basis.
Oh by the way, 64 bit was mostly used for high end work stations and servers but since the G5 its available to every one.It may take a while for most Applications to become 64 bit.But for now 32 bit works fine.Its only going to get better.
As far as price is concerned. Well you can judge for yourself what you can afford and what your time is worth.

http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/virginiatech/

Everyone uses what they like or are accustom to, or what they are willing to put up with.

If you enjoy what you use.Then stay with it.

Good luck to all.

NHL Jan 10, 2004 11:04 AM

Also

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040109/the_i...gernaut_3.html

awikenheiser Jan 13, 2004 6:32 PM

it's interesting this topic should come up. Just recently I saw somewhere on the web some people tested a mac and a windows based pc exhaustivley to find out why "artistic types" tend to prefer the mac. They found that the windows system was better than the mac in somthing like 70% of thier tests. (I can't remember the exact number, but somewhere close to that.)

EasyRay Jan 13, 2004 9:03 PM

awikenheiser,

Also interesting you couldn't answer the same question.Hmmm Somewhere, ahhh people,ahhh why,ahhh exhaustivley,ahhh somthing like.Can't remember ahhh somewhere close.

Your statement is very interesting.
Very funny.

bradg Jan 13, 2004 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyRay
Hmmm Somewhere, ahhh people,ahhh why,ahhh exhaustivley,ahhh somthing like.Can't remember ahhh somewhere close.


please, someone tell me i'm not the only on that has trouble understanding this

EasyRay Jan 13, 2004 10:28 PM

I just used his words and shortened it a bit.

Somewhere,people tested,why,exhaustively,
something like,can't remember,somewhere close.

koruvs Jan 14, 2004 12:14 AM

For what we do eg: take photos, do a little editting who needs a Mac? Do Macs arange the pixels more effectively/cosmetically on the screen? ;-)

I'll build my own systems on a Linux platform and save money for camera equipment, thank you. 8)

-

EasyRay Jan 14, 2004 8:18 AM

koruvs,

What percentage of people use linux?A very small percent.With a Mac you get both its great (IMO) GUI and for the geeks, they get to use UNIX which is all Linux is.I personally don't use the command line interface hardly at all, except for some disk maintenance etc. and I learned that in a chat forum.
When you say we, please don't include me because I like to make my own choices.Just like everyone doesn't drive a Yugo. :wink:
I also like to do video,still photos,add music,do my own editing,burn my own DVDs. All the software is seamless and I don't need a degree in computer engineering to do it.Computing for everyone I love it.
I couldn't tell you how to turn one of these machines on in 1996 and now I can do all this great stuff.
Enjoy what you use.I know I enjoy what I use because it just works.

NHL Jan 14, 2004 12:40 PM

Don't forget this big iron! :lol:
... and how about Fibre Channel?

koruvs Jan 14, 2004 12:55 PM

Actually, believe it or not Linux and Mac users are very close in terms of usage and popularity.

Linux, in paticular Mandrake and RedHat are very easy to use and have very attractive GUIs. There are enough GUI apps in Linux to avoid the command line 95% percent of the time. GiMP is the photo editor that is somewhere in between PaintShop Pro and PhotoShop ...atleast in my opinion. Either way, is just goes to show that companies don't need to charge an arm and a leg for a photo editor or OS.

When I said "we" I ment the people in this form discuss photo edtting, not DVD or MiniDV editting, etc. That being said I recommend Linux as an alternative photo editting platform as it is very stable, easier to use than you think, extremely robust, Free (as are the applications) etc...

I'm sure Mac is fine but, for editting photos, it isn't any better or worse.

-

NHL Jan 14, 2004 1:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradg
Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyRay
Hmmm Somewhere, ahhh people,ahhh why,ahhh exhaustivley,ahhh somthing like.Can't remember ahhh somewhere close.


please, someone tell me i'm not the only on that has trouble understanding this

Somewhere, someone: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columni...teinberg_x.htm
... and not just for graphics: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/06xgrid.html

sjms Jan 15, 2004 7:28 PM

Darrel1 made the best statement. both have their issues. but as with anything that is on the market look at the numbers. when you currently have over 90% of the home computing world on one operating system and the the rest split up between linux and apple where do you think the most issues will be found. 90% of issues on XP are user induced. the most recent renditions of the apple OS have had their own problems too. this is going to happen when you are writing levels/volumes of code that are in these systems. Windows is the most prominent of the OSs due to its level of use and of course some of their business practices in the press. apple had a great advantage a while back in the graphics department( and boy did you pay for it. video cards that cost well over $1k). these days truthfully they have been eclipsed by the PC due to companies like nvidia and ATI going for volume sales instead of relying on selling a few expensive cards to a select group(and i'm not referring to the game cards either). processing power of the G5 isn't exactly the speediest against PC boxes as demonstrated by:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/mul...id=7-6451-6410

why is apple so popular. it is a pop culture icon with some great ideas. the ipod is a visually stunning design but the average owner cannot/will not change the battery when it dies after about 18 months of use. it can be done: $105 currently from apple or $50 and a little bit of work on your part. but apple really doesn't want to fix them. every 6-12 months a new tricker version will come out with some added functionality and will be pushed as the next must have. and it will sell. the entire industry is in a process of shifting from pure computing products to appliances. the gee wiz factor is gone. these items are commedities. they have led the way as they have in the past. apples ideas over the years have been great and they have a patent list that is pretty impressive. their follow through though has been a bit weak. what apple is good at is "the Next Big Thing". marketing at its best.


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