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-   -   Where are the good cameras? (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/general-discussion-11/where-good-cameras-7785/)

nimos Mar 12, 2003 11:38 AM

Where are the good cameras?
 
Every passing month I'm overwhelmed with cheap cameras that seem to pop out of the woodwork like ants. I consider all these consumer cameras as noise generators, but that's okay, because people buying those models just dont care about things like noise, abberations, lens distortions... heck, they can't even see these deficiencies on their 4x7 prints. So why even waste time and resources by carefully analyzing these cameras? Just post the basic specs and maybe a quick comment.
Now to my main concern... why are the good cameras so rare? For every 50 toy camera models I'm lucky to see 1 good one. Are the camera makers holding back so they can justify the astronomical prices of the good models?

steve Mar 12, 2003 11:51 AM

It's all a conspiracy but the truth is out there. :shock:

[Fox Mulder]

Mike_PEAT Mar 12, 2003 1:04 PM

Well just look at what people are buying, that's where the money is.

For years I supported elitest computers designed for high-end graphics multimedia, but the market dwindled as people switched to the trashy PC computers which could do graphics, video, etc. I really hated (and still do) the PC and Microsoft's OS, but that's what most of the world runs on...and the same thing's been happening in handheld devices.

If given the choice between a better device, and a cheaper better marketed device, people will choose the cheaper one every time (look at Beta vs. VHS).

Anyway, there are higher end digital cameras out there and even digital backs for cameras like the Hasselblad for $30,000 or digitalSLRs like the 11 megapixel Canon EOS-1Ds for $8,500 (just for the body)...but how many people are buying those vs. buying the Olympus C-7x0 series cameras (Oly will soon be coming out with two new C-7x0's), or a pocketable Canon?

voxmagna Mar 12, 2003 3:54 PM

I suppose we must live with the market frenzy for the cheap Mpix boxes since their volume sales provide the R&D funding for the better cams. When those buyers in larger numbers realise the deficiencies, next time they may have higher expectations and choose more carefully. After all, the dodgy ccd's from the yield must get their pix mapped out and end up somewhere!

That's why forums like this help. The selfish trick is not putting off newbies who have already convinced themselves the cheap option is best, but help them through their dissonance phase afterwards with TLC and counselling, to join us wanting better cams.

A bit like manipulating the market forces in the right direction - just as manufacturers do, but with consumer centric objectives!

tabasco Mar 12, 2003 5:11 PM

Quote:

Now to my main concern... why are the good cameras so rare? For every 50 toy camera models I'm lucky to see 1 good one.
I guess for every fifty buyers, there is one that cares about digicams as photo tools :wink: .

normc Mar 12, 2003 7:59 PM

Well?
 
Recently I got told that I really didn't take the picture....from my digital camera...the guy who wrote the software did it? I guess he was talking about the computer software? So everyone is complaining. But I do not have the mega bucks for the top of the line so I'll just plug along with the "cheap" stuff.

Dawgcatcher Mar 12, 2003 11:44 PM

Wow, you guys are on a different level! Speaking as a full-on Newbie, it sure is exciting learning about all this stuff. :)

d77avid Mar 13, 2003 9:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voxmagna
I suppose we must live with the market frenzy for the cheap Mpix boxes since their volume sales provide the R&D funding for the better cams. When those buyers in larger numbers realise the deficiencies, next time they may have higher expectations and choose more carefully. After all, the dodgy ccd's from the yield must get their pix mapped out and end up somewhere!

That's why forums like this help. The selfish trick is not putting off newbies who have already convinced themselves the cheap option is best, but help them through their dissonance phase afterwards with TLC and counselling, to join us wanting better cams.

A bit like manipulating the market forces in the right direction - just as manufacturers do, but with consumer centric objectives!


I noticed in your response to my post on the Eos 10D that you found it appealing but too pricey.I presently have the CanonG2 and am pretty blown away with it.I've printed 8x10s I will put up against the ones from my "real cams"(elan7,minoltaX700 with decent lenses)
You are an obvious full blown techie,whose opinions I value (when I can understand them)...so what digicam do you have and whats the beef with consumer cams..for general use.Blown pixels can certainly be fixed in PS and other programs

voxmagna Mar 13, 2003 9:59 AM

I use a 602, I have no beef with cheaper cams, I actually see them as fitness for purpose at a price buyers can afford, and get more people interested in photography. Rather like comparing the instant happy snap film cams to high end SLR's. There's something for everyone - and it's all still about photography.

My point is, that without volume sales of cheaper cams, those fewer buyers, interested in more expensive cams like the 10D would probably be paying more, and improvements would not come so quickly. Personally, I'd wait until they'd bought and paid the development and marketing costs and buy just before the next model. There are fewer buyers for the expensive cams, so prices are likely to fluctuate as fashion moves to the next model.

Quote:

Blown pixels can certainly be fixed in PS and other programs
You might not understand that the spread of 'dead pixels' in a wafer yield is dealt with by 'masking' techniques. I didn't mean they were obviously visible. The cheapest 'real' camera is probably a disposable film type with or without flash. If you only want a 6X4 print, point and shoot, without hobby enthusiast factor, there is a place for this type of product.

For a non-critical pic in good light, it might even compare favourably in quality with all your cams! Perhaps even a scan at 20 Mpix, a tweak in PS and it could look as good as a 10D!

mikep Mar 13, 2003 10:18 AM

love is in the eye of the beholder... or hand,,,, or something like that ;)
an old 1.2 mpix cam will make outstanding photos in the experienced hand of an old blind man.


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