Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Sep 27, 2006, 6:54 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
BenjaminXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 788
Default

The last I heard,was the combination of I.S. and high ISO performance (Good one!). Such a combination does indeed offer you the best of both worlds: To counter hand shake/movements & to freeze a moving subject in lower lighting conditions.

Any more suggestions?
BenjaminXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Sep 27, 2006, 7:34 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
rjseeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky
Posts: 2,398
Default

There is no holy grail. All cameras have strengths and weeknesses. No one camera will fit every need. Most every camera will produce good to great images if used correctly. I own 2 dslr's, 1 prosumer P&S, and a small P&S (and two film cameras) and they all have their place in my bag, and all have made me money. None have IS/VR, and the two P&S cameras have lousy high iso performance. You have to choose a tool that works for you...no one camera is perfect or right for everyone.
rjseeney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 28, 2006, 6:39 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 851
Default

Agreed. One man's holy grail is another man's piece of junk. Every camera has it's strengths and limitations, it becomes a matter of what your specific needs are.

My dSLR is pretty useless above ISO 400, but I shoot less than 1/10 of 1% above base ISO (160). None of my lenses (or p&s) have image stabilization. I don't need it.

My holy grail would be a full frame nikon mount camera with a pixel count above 20MP and more lenses with the image quality of the Sony R1 lens.
amazingthailand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 28, 2006, 6:48 AM   #4
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,529
Default

The Holy Grail?

That's easy - the camera that automatically corrects for operator error

Sorry - I'm with the others on this - there is no holy grail. IMO, hands-on practice and perfecting your craft will always yield better results than a camera with a new feature. Many people are under the misconception that they need a better tool to make a better product. In reality, it's still just a tool. If you've ever had the oportunity to own a legitimate Amish built piece of furniture or house you'll know what I'm talking about. Not a single electronic tool used - they rely on tools designed over 100 years ago and still turn out a much better product than many "modern" craftsmen with the latest $10000 tools. Why? Because they know their craft and spent time perfecting it. New camera features are nice, but if you don't know your craft you'll still end up with a lousy photograph - sure it won't have any noise but a lousy photograph is a lousy photograph, noise or not.
JohnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 28, 2006, 10:06 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,093
Default

BenjaminXYZ wrote:
Quote:
The last I heard,was the combination of I.S. and high ISO performance (Good one!). Such a combination does indeed offer you the best of both worlds: To counter hand shake/movements & to freeze a moving subject in lower lighting conditions.

Any more suggestions?
This just may go to prove the other comments that one man's mead is another man's poison, but I find IS next to useless. I have it in my camera, because I thought that it would be a "must have." However, the reality is that the main rule of thumb continues to be "when in doubt, use a tripod." The two stops youcan supposedly get with IS is just not large enough to change my region of doubt. If it's a bright sunny day, I don't need a tripod. Otherwise, I do. Maybe I could escape without one in some contexts, but I'm never exactly sure which photos are on the "right side" of the cusp.

OTOH, I do think that high quality high ISO is always a win. I may choose to shoot at ISO 100 if I can, but if I am shooting in lower light, there's no substitute for high ISO.

I would add that high dynamic range would be nice. Since digital exposures are linear, you need a lot more dynamic range to accomplish what old B&W film did by its natural roll-off at the high and low end -- be able to get into the shadows and highlights with detail that can be dodged or burned out of the "negative" in the (digital) darkroom if needed.
tclune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 28, 2006, 10:54 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Widowmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 851
Default

Quote:
The two stops you can supposedly get with IS is just not large enough to change my region of doubt
IS is definitely effective and you don't always have a tripod handy or are not able to set it up fast enough to get a shot. This was shot at 1/30 shutter, completely handheld at 420mm not including the 1.3 crop factor. Definitely on the extreme end of IS use. At smaller focal lengths its even more effective.

As for the Holy Grail or cameras, there is definitely a list of specs that would cover everyones needs but no camera available that does this. To me it would be fast shutters speeds with correct exposure regardless of lighting with no noise issues.


Widowmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 28, 2006, 11:55 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Morag2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 820
Default

I would like a camera... with a sensor about 4 times the size of a current full frame sensor. It would support ISO up to 12800 with little noise and offer 50MP resolution. Shutter speeds will go from 5 minutes to 1/20,000 and it will support light, cheap lenses, some of which will offer 800+mm and aperatures of f1. It will be available in a body weighing under a kilogram and no bigger than the Canon Digital Rebel. It will include a 2.8 inch LCD screen and large bright viewfinder.

Now, a question for somebody smart... how many laws of physics did I just violate?
Morag2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2006, 7:18 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 851
Default

Pretty much all of them, including the laws of economics.
amazingthailand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2006, 8:30 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
tmoreau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 477
Default

The Holy Grail of Digital Cameras

-8 micron photosites (I'd much rather see this advertised than Megapixels)
-Enough pixels to make your TYPICAL large print at 240ppi (less if really big)
(Another measurement that would be better than mpx)
(Obviously larger sensors are needed for larger prints)
-Compatibility with a full set of Perfect Lenses
-Must fit on your keychain
-Cost < $500

4x6" Print, 240ppi, 8µm photosite = 1440x960 (1.4Mp) = 11.5 x 7.7mm sensor
(closes to 2/3 sensor, big for a compact camera)

5x7" Print, 240ppi, 8µm photosite = 1680x1200 (2.0Mp) = 13 x 9.6mm sensor

8x10" Print, 240ppi, 8µm photosite = 2400x1920 (4.6Mp) = 19 x 15.4mm sensor
(About what the olympus 4/3 sensor is, Sigma DP1 looks promising. APS-C is sligtly larger)

11x17" Print, 240ppi, 8µm photosite = 4080x2640 (10.8Mp) = 32.6 x 21mm sensor
(Close to full frame 35mm)

Bigger prints = more distant viewing = less ppi (random guestimate numbers for truly superb quality prints)

18x24" Print, 180ppi, 8µm photosite = 4320x3240 (14Mp) = 34.5 x 26mm sensor
(Still close to full frame 35mm)

24x36" Print, 160ppi, 8µm photosite = 5760x3840 (22Mp) = 46 x 30mm sensor

36x48" Print, 140ppi, 8µm photosite = 6720x5040 (34Mp) = 54 x 40mm sensor
(645 medium format full frame, similar to just announced Hasselblad H3D)

Holy grail? Could be any one of these choices, because your penalized with weight and cost in the camera and in the optics as you advance up this scale. Marketing folks wont let a company produce a proper compact, although the newly anounced Sigma DP1 sounds very promising. The Canon full frame dslrs are probably close to the holy grail for most working pro's who need to print 18x24 regularly. 6mp APS dlsr's are about the holy grail for me and people like me who only rarely print a 13x19, more often make 8x10's. The 35mm platform in general is definatly the current "holy grail" out of whats availible, regarding features, automation, ergonomics, lenses, etc. Maybe it could scale down with digital... but I like it right now since you can have one set of lenses for BOTH your 35mm format and medium format (Digital: APS and Full Frame).

In truth, of course, there is no such thing as the holy grail of digital cameras.
tmoreau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2006, 8:45 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
meanstreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,234
Default

rjseeney wrote:
Quote:
There is no holy grail. All cameras have strengths and weeknesses. No one camera will fit every need. Most every camera will produce good to great images if used correctly. I own 2 dslr's, 1 prosumer P&S, and a small P&S (and two film cameras) and they all have their place in my bag, and all have made me money. None have IS/VR, and the two P&S cameras have lousy high iso performance. You have to choose a tool that works for you...no one camera is perfect or right for everyone.
I agree, there is no single solution. If it existed, the choice would be clear and that would be the end of competition.

As for IS, though it is not a requirement, it does help to take pictures that previously required a tripod.

My compact point and shoot, Fuji f30, does well at high ISO and I have yet to take a blurry shot despite the fact it lacks IS. I believe the reason is that in automode it tends to use a higher ISO than required to take the picture so faster shutter speeds are replacing the need for a tripod or IS. I find that it sometimes pick 400, when I would have use 100, or800 when 400 is more than adequate. The beauty of it is that even so the pictures come out great and it would be impossible to tell without the EXIF info.ISO I still prefer lower ISO speeds, so thank heavens the F30 has manual settings.
meanstreak is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:52 PM.