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Old Oct 11, 2006, 1:47 PM   #51
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BenjaminXYZ wrote:

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John, what do you think? Perhaps that young inexperienced guy had read a very good magazine article about the matter; wouldn't he be able to tell the experienced guy some facts? (I meant, that experiencedguy might not even know some things that the young guy might have known from the magazine. [probably the magazine could be written by someone with experience as well])

What I'm saying is the kid reading the magazine doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does. That 95% of knowledge about an applied art/science is gained from DOING IT not reading about it. We're not talking about a theoretical field here. So, what I'm saying is in 99% of the instances the experienced driver (if he's good) will not only have experience but also enough knowledge about real-world tested alternatives. So, 99% of the time I'm going to listen to the one with the experience.

The problem is you would like to portray that individual as being on the same level as the person with experience - truth is they are not the same level. Sorry, they'r not. Not even close.

The problem with your approach is that you are:

a. Trusting the person writing the article knows what they are talking about.

b Is unbiased (which is almost impossible to be)

c. You have no experience to interpret their findings into real-world application. For instance, lets say camera A has a 3fps burst rate, Camera B has 5fps and camera C has 8fps. Of course you can say MORE IS BETTER, but without experience you can't say when 'A' is good enough or when B becomes a criteria.

So, to answer your question in as clear of terms as I can:

I think the kid can add about 5% to the discussion and his opinion should be given a weight of about 5%.

You're a lot like a google search - you have facts to present, and people here who have experience can tell when your facts and arguments make sense (and they sometimes do) and when you are beyond your depth (as you were when you were arguing sports photography with me). But, a newbie isn't going to be able to tell the difference. So, your a dangerous source of information - just like google is.

When you have galleries of photos to show someone your experience and can show examples of how you personally have applied the principles of photography then people will respect what you have to say. You can't demand respect. You have to earn it.. You haven't earned anyones respect here. Why? Because THIS IS AN APPLIED ART/SCIENCE - not a theoretical one. Want to get folks like Tom and myself off your back? Go out and shoot. Use the types of equipment you're hypothesizing about (and yes that means use a DSLR - don't just read about it). Until then your opinion holds little weight.

Until then, all you can do is get in these arguments because you really have nothing to back up your opinions with. All you can do is say "I'm Right because all the articles agree with me". You can't show a photograph or make a comment like "based on my experience this is why I know I'm right".

Can't you see that yet? These aren't just theoretical debates here. You can read all you want but until you've actually gone out and done the work you won't understand nuances involved.
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 1:49 PM   #52
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No, not really. Thats the point.

I didnt really answer your question in that last post, either.

You have no basis on which to compare all these cameras, the reviews give you very little useful information unless you have a keen eye. In order to gain this neccasary expirience, many people (including myself) would have to recomend that you buy an entry-level DSLR that 'looks neat' to you. Maybe the recomendations could be narrowed down a little if we knew some specifics about you, but at this point I dont believe you have a style, shoot any specific type of image regularly, or have any other distinctive quality on which to sort the availible options. Just start somewhere, and the ignorance [that were all born with] will fade.
This post of yours is getting ultra personal with me, and I am feeling rather un-comfortable about it all.

I do notwant to make this thread my own, but I should say that I shoot many types of photos including long exposures.

I particularly dislike this statement of yours (If thatwas the right way to say it)>>>

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I dont believe you have a style, shoot any specific type of image regularly, or have any other distinctive quality on which to sort the availible options. Just start somewhere, and the ignorance [that were all born with] will fade.

[Text Removed]








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Old Oct 11, 2006, 2:13 PM   #53
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I have to repeat, "Man, your thick".

You need to shift your viewpoint, you are misunderstanding.

I said the ignorance will fade, follow that link and read the definition of that word. If you find it an insult, its only because you want it to be.

"Distinctive qualitity" would be a Sports Shooter, Photojournalist, Art museum photographer. Something "distinct" about your particular needs or your personal style. Again, your reading my post with bias and missing what I'm saying. Slow it down and re-read, I know you'll get it.
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 2:23 PM   #54
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BenjaminXYZ wrote:
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BTW, I think Ishould leave this forum. (Irespect John's advice.)

I don't think that such an inexperiencedperson like me should still be in here discussing; I guess Iam considered "know nothing" to discuss in the first place.

Bye.

Maybe I'll see you all in1 years time when I had gained enough experience.
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"That's exactly the type of behavior that keeps you from gaining respect. I picture you stomping off to your room and slamming the door.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"No one is saying you're worthless. You just need to temper your opinions with experience. Stop getting into arguments with folks here. Stop challenging them so much. Change your style and approach - don't be so confrontational. That's all. And try to restrain yourself from offering solutions beyond your personal experience. In other words try to use this forum to LEARN - you'll notice your posts that are about you trying to learn have much more positive responses. It's the posts where you are trying to teach that you run into these arguments.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"You are young, grasshopper and have promise, but you aren't qualified to teach yet - does that make sense? I know you want to. But the only way to be qualified to teach is to learn by doing. You are quite capable of contributing to discussions - lots of newbies here contribute very well. You just bring down conflict because you try to stretch beyond your own experience. So, my advice is to not throw a tantrum and storm off. Stay away from recommending solutions to folks unless they're solutions you have personal knowledge of. Their are lots of other topics and threads here and most importatnly there is an opportunity for you to learn here. But solution recommendations should be based on experience. Stick to the other subject matter here and I think you'll do well. When someone asks about something you do have actual experience on then jump right in.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Does that make sense?

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 2:31 PM   #55
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Alright, I admit that I have been reading all your replies in here like the way the Americans had been looking at the Japanese last time. (Just K.D. only!)

I found out that if I readall your replies"thinking you guys meant no harm" I actually accepted them better.

I guess I should change the subject.

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Why digital SLR?
Yeah, I really wonder if an armature on a tight budget like $1000 should be getting a dSLR?





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