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Old Dec 25, 2006, 10:33 PM   #1
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Bought a Canon SD630 about a week ago. Not very savvy at taking pictures. Seems nice enough but It's hit and miss with the Red Eye reduction. Instructions say to have the subject look at the little opening by the lens. This alone is a pain but even doing this, sometimes there'n no Red Eye and other times the Red Eye is still there. I think my old 2.1 MP Olympus just used a flashing light that got people's eye lens to close for the shot. Would rather have a camera that does that so I don't have to keep telling people to look at the little hole by the lens. That's a pain. Any help in avoiding the Red Eye or should I just look for a camera that uses a flashing light like the Olympus?
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 11:01 PM   #2
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Boodstir wrote:
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Bought a Canon SD630 about a week ago. Not very savvy at taking pictures. Seems nice enough but It's hit and miss with the Red Eye reduction. Instructions say to have the subject look at the little opening by the lens. This alone is a pain but even doing this, sometimes there'n no Red Eye and other times the Red Eye is still there. I think my old 2.1 MP Olympus just used a flashing light that got people's eye lens to close for the shot. Would rather have a camera that does that so I don't have to keep telling people to look at the little hole by the lens. That's a pain. Any help in avoiding the Red Eye or should I just look for a camera that uses a flashing light like the Olympus?
To be honest, the ONLY WAY you can avoid redeye consistently is to buy a camera that allows you to mount a separate flash in a hot shoe and get the flash tubeaway from the lens axis, and that does NOT limit you to DSLR's, as cameras like the Canon Powershot G7 have hot shoes for mounting both TTL and non-TTL flash units. Not only doesa separate flash unitfix redeye for the most part (see below), buttheyalso offer the capabilityof much betterQUALITYlighting by using bounce or difussedflash.

Some digicams have better luck at minimizing redeye, and in some cases, certain people may be more or less apt to have redeye, but youWILL be dealing with redeye issues as long as you're willing to live with a point & shoot digicam... period, end of story. Zoom away from the widest setting of your lens and you start increasing the chances of redeye even more, as longer focal lengths make matters even worse. Even DSLR users have to resort to using brackets to get the separateflash uniteven further away when using telephoto lenses.

Redeye in humans can be fixed in software by those willing to learn anduse the technology, but set redeye aside...forget about that, let's just assume you defeat that problem in every shot, be it software or whatever...you're still stuck with the quality of the light these built-in units give, and once you see what a simple bounce attachment can do with a flash unit like the one I used in the images below, you'll wonder why you put up with point & shoot flash technology; the dark, nasty shadows and blown out skin tones, the totally dark background when you knew there was SOMETHING behind your subject,as long as you did. It amazes me how much so manypeople are willing to pay for a digital camera, and then what low quality they are willing to put up with as "acceptable".










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Old Dec 25, 2006, 11:32 PM   #3
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Is that really enough examples????????
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 12:33 AM   #4
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You're probably right:lol:

Here's a classic point & shoot set of images I took at my family's Christmas get together.The type pictures98% of families takeduring holidayslike this.Absolutely nothing earth-shattering in these images from the standpoint of posing or using the rule of thirds/ composition...strictly a recording of a family get-together, with a bounce attachment over the flash head in images where flash was used, and it was in every indoor shot with plenty of opportunities to have nasty redeye, but I knew that was not going to be an issue.

http://gmchappell.smugmug.com/gallery/2275981




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Old Dec 26, 2006, 9:11 AM   #5
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Wow! Thanks for the quick responses. What's the rule of thirds/composition. And with a Canon SD630, is it too small for a bounce attachment? Don't really know what that looks like although I can imagine what it does. Seems to me I remember something from the past where you're supposed to keep the flash unit farther from the lens? But with a built in like in the Canon SD630, can a bounce unit be attached or used? I still have a couple of days to return this camera. This Red Eye bothers me that mucch that if I can't comfortably get Non-Redeye results with this SD630, I'll probably return it and go back to square 1 about which camera to buy.
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 11:36 AM   #6
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Boodstir wrote:
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Wow! Thanks for the quick responses. What's the rule of thirds/composition. And with a Canon SD630, is it too small for a bounce attachment? Don't really know what that looks like although I can imagine what it does. Seems to me I remember something from the past where you're supposed to keep the flash unit farther from the lens? But with a built in like in the Canon SD630, can a bounce unit be attached or used? I still have a couple of days to return this camera. This Red Eye bothers me that mucch that if I can't comfortably get Non-Redeye results with this SD630, I'll probably return it and go back to square 1 about which camera to buy.
Hi Boodstir,

Rule of thirds has to dfo with where you place your subjects within the picture for more asthetically pleasing images. Here's a site that goes into the thought process:

http://www.silverlight.co.uk/tutoria...se/thirds.html

Point & shoots like the SD models with built-in flash unitsare fairly limiting as to what you can do with the quality of thelight produced. You need a model that allows for the mounting of a separate flash unit and I can see why many (my parents are the classic example) simply don't want to fool with the extra time and expense involved, partly on the part of my parentsbecause they expect me to do it for them!
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 12:17 PM   #7
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So basically, if I keep this camera, I'll have to get used to the hit & miss Red-Eye. I haven't been able to come up with the best combination of, for example, distance & lighting, to make my chances of a Non Red-Eye result. I really didn't buy it for family pictures, more for eBay pictures which negate the Red-Eye issue. Just thought it could update my 2.1 MP Olympus which, from what I remember, didn't give me a Red-Eye problem. But, like I said previously, the Olympus sends out a flash burst before snapping the picture and I think that worked better. Thanks again for the quickresponses. Any other ideas, be happy to hear them.



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Old Dec 26, 2006, 12:42 PM   #8
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The best hope you'll have will be to avoid zooming the camera too much off the widest setting when taking indoor flash images. The further you zoom the lens towards the tele end, redeye will get worse. Some people's eyes are also more apt to cause redeye than others, just like some people have "lazy eyes" and tend to always have them closed or half closedwhen pictures are taken of them, but nothing is constant, it will be hit and miss. You can only take precautions to hopefully minimize the effect, and learn to use whatever software you have to remove it when it does happen. In some cases, especially when the subject is fairly small even redeye removal software doesn't work, and I've never been able to get it to work on pets for my girlfriend. She wants to take pictures of her pets in the worst way with her digicam, but they always have that "devil dog" look, and redeye in pets is different from humans... I've never been able to make the software work on animals.
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 10:07 PM   #9
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For special occasions where you lug your large camera gear I agree a bounce flash unit with a diffuser is ideal. But from the point of view of someone who has both large cameras and flash attachments as well as a pocket camera, I would miss over half of my photographs if I counted on taking pictures only when I could shoot with a large camera that will take a flash attachment. With a small camera you have to muddle through. And that often means post processing out the red-eye. There is freeware that reportedly does a good job with a one click fix.

Paint Shop Pro XI isn't free but it is cheap in the CD-only version on Ebay. It has choices for the red-eye fix that includes animals. I just do it manually in Photoshop and never have a problem.

My current pocket camera has a single pre-flash for red-eye, which ruins any chance of candid shots and doesn't work very well anyway. The only thing it is really good for is little kids who smile right after they see the flash.

DCRP does red-eye tests on all of the cameras they test. As just one example, take a look at the Kodak V610 review. http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/kodak/v610-review/ It is one of the rare pocket cameras that can manage to avoid red-eye. Since it avoids red-eye with both hardware and internal software it is probably effective at most ranges, although I don't know that for sure. I'm not saying it is a great camera, but if red-eye is a big deal to you it might be worth considering. If you look through Jeff's reviews he always has a red-eye test, which is run with whatever red-eye reduction the camera uses turned on. Most small cameras get a lot of red-eye. http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php The little squares with R's indicate reviews and you can click directly on the little square to go to the review.

It is disconcerting to me that they won't at least put sync connections on cameras if they want to save money and space by leaving the hot shoe off. My insisting on the hot shoe limits my choice of larger non-DSLR cameras. And for small cameras there are some pretty small bounce flash units and I could probably make a small lightweight bracket and diffuser for one. But nobody anymore puts the connector on pocket cameras.

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Old Jan 4, 2007, 12:39 PM   #10
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Red eye reduction. Well, it's just [email protected]#$% useless! I mean if you take pics of a group and a flash goes off, people just think the pic was taken and they stop looking into the camera. Also, the first flash just makes people close their eyes. Also, it's a drain on batteries.
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