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Old Jul 21, 2007, 2:34 PM   #1
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Hi all, I used to think my F10 had really superior low light performance until today when I took out the S45 and shot the same scene just for fun. To my surprise, the S45 was able to snap a brighter picture with more detail at a faster shutter speed than the F10, which needed a much slower shutter speed to capture a similar amount of light. Both were set to 400 ISO.

I was making quick snaps and just happened to be surprised at the results... here are the crops I uploaded:

Here's the F10 at 400 ISO, 1/40s f2.8:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/...40s%20_F10.JPG

Compare it with the Canon at 400 ISO 1/40s f2.8
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/..._1_40s_S45.JPG

And the Fuji at 800 ISO 1/50s f2.8:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/...50s%20_F10.JPG

compared with S45 at 400 ISO 1/50s f2.8:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/..._50s_S45_2.JPG


I was surprised that the S45 takes in more light at faster shutter speeds while the F10 needs ISO 800 to look similarly bright like the S45's ISO 400 at the same shutter speeds (not considering image noise).

Is my F10 wonky or is this how it's like? ISO 800 = ISo 400?? Notice too on the flowers in the pic, the Canon is brighter thus has more detail on the flowers than the Fuji.

Here's two more, Fuji at 1/75s:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/...75s%20_F10.JPG

and canon at 1/80s:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/..._1_80s_S45.JPG

The canon at 1/80s actually looks brighter than the F10 at 1/75s, especially the flowers are more visible in the canon pic.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 3:51 PM   #2
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I've read several similar posts. Evidently Fuji overstates their ISO to some degree compared to several other brands.

Reviewers don't tend to check the relative ISO between cameras. They just say how great the Fuji 6Mp cameras are at a certain ISO compared to other cameras. That Fuji sensor and processor combination is still better than any other non-DSLR in low light for capturing motion. Just not quite as superior as comparing ISO 800 results might imply without an absolute light reference.

It doesn't make any difference in use. The Fuji processor is based on their own ISO ratings and adjust properly.


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Old Jul 21, 2007, 3:59 PM   #3
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Nope.

I had those same concerns when I saw Fuji's claims and looked at an awful lot of images suspecting foul play.

I even had conversations with Steve about it before he ever got the first F10 in for a review.

What you're seeing is that the Canon is *more* sensitive than it's set ISO speed, combined with better Dynamic Range and image processing differences for things like contrast.

The Fujis (based on tests I've seen) are not "fudging" their ISO Speed compared to models that have a relatively accurate ISO speed setting. Some of the older Canon models are more sensitive than their set ISO speed.

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Old Jul 21, 2007, 4:29 PM   #4
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P.S.

I usually don't link to reviews elsewhere, since that's not fair to Steve. But, I'll make an exception in this case.

See Phil Askey's comments about the S45 on this page. Note the part about "...we must compare shots one ISO sensitivity apart (one stop)" under the "What is ISO 50" section.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons45/page13.asp

Canon tends to take this approach (more sensitive than set ISO speed) with some of their models.

Phil is taking a more sophisticated approach to newer reviews (measuring color patches. more controlled conditions, use of light meters, etc.), and I have seen no evidence that Fuji is fudging their ISO speed ratings, based on images and settings that I've compared from multiple models (and part of me wanted to think that's what they were doing to get the results you see). lol


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Old Jul 21, 2007, 7:39 PM   #5
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Hmm I never knew that about the Canon! Thanks for the link Jim, now I guess i know why I was always able to shoot handheld and get nice pictures with the S45. I used to defend its bulk and size telling people that it being heavy allowed me to take steady photos when all along it's simply cause I was able to use faster shutter speeds with it hahaha duhh. But I guess the bulk helps too. It's also built like a tank, surviving so many drops already!

Well I am glad I dont have a broken F10! I just updated the firmware last night and thought maybe it's cause of that. I kinda miss the cute typos, "foluscent". lol, at least the typo "Maltiple" is still in the manual hehe.

In any case, I really like the quality of the f10's 1600 ISO images when shooting indoors without flash. Very clean and actually looks a whole lot better than my Fuji S6500fd which produces watercolor-like high ISO images. Do you guys with also think that the newer generation Real Photo processor over processes for noise than the older ones? I get the same F10 effect only if I shoot raw on the s6500 and post process lightly.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 7:57 PM   #6
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Don't get me to lying. ;-)

Yea... I think they may have overcooked the images a bit on the latest models from a noise reduction perspective from images I've examined comparing some of these Fuji models. But, they still have the best processing in the business for reducing it from these tiny sensors.

It's probably pretty hard to maintain a balance that keeps everyone happy (detail retention versus noise) at a given print/viewing size.



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