Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Aug 23, 2007, 2:00 AM   #21
Super Moderator
 
peripatetic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,599
Default

I understand now too.

Thething is that you're comparing what you see on screen now to a memory of how sharp your film SLR pictures were.

If you match a good print from one of the modern DSLR cameras to a print from your old Mamiya you will find the image quality to be very very close. So close that I believe most people will find it almost impossible to say which came from which.

(Film v digital is a big side issue, but let it suffice to say that digital is "close enough" under most conditions for it not to matter.)

But instead of comparing prints you are comparing a screen view that you can zoom into. That is an unfair comparison, to make it fairer you should be looking at your film prints under a magnifying loupe. Or maybe scan in some of those old negatives with a decent scanner and see how they look.

Many (most?) photographers that still use film now scan their negatives/slideswith high-resolution scanners and process the image in photoshop and then print on high-quality printers. That way theykeep the advantages that film has and still get the benefit of photoshop and high-quality digital printing. But guess what? They then still have exactly the same issues with sharpening. Once again though - optimal sharpening depends on the image you start with, so will depend on film type, scanner resolution and what format one is outputting to. A 5x7 print demands different sharpening to a 12x18 print demands different sharpening to an 800x600 screen for a website.

And finally - as corpsy has said there is also the matter of personal taste.
peripatetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 23, 2007, 9:15 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
fofa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 547
Default

Ok, thougth about starting a new thread, But i would have to rehash half this thread, so I am putting it here. Doing more research, I and with what yall have told me, I looked the dslr's a little differently. So then more confused because of details, not so much picture quality. Searching for camera bodies I came with this list.
Nikon D80 $279.00
Canon digital Rebel XT #249.00
Pentax K100D #349.00 plus $50.00 rebate for $309.00
Canon digital Rebel XTi $229.00
Nikon D40x $259.00
Sony A100 $389.00
SamSung GX-1S $441.35
SamSung GX-10 $618.00
Nikon D50 $419.00

All were listed as new, not refurbished. All are just the body. How ever some weird things are a battery for a couple of them were like $180.00, for a battery?!? The D80 had a lot of good reviews, but the Rebel xti (400D) always came out ahead because of the dust shaking sensor, and the Sony always seem to come out above the 400D because it has the dust thing and Image Stabilization. I know when I looked at the Nikon D50, I didn't really like it because the view finder was to dark for me.
So which of those would older cheaper but really good lenses be had? The Pentax's seem to have the upper hand there, but I could be wrong.
Oh just an aside, I read one that was comparing the Canon Rebel XTi to the Sony A100 (I think that was the two) but they were using the "kit" lenses, and then used a good prime lens, and the difference was pretty dang clear in the photos, not between cameras, but between lenses on the same camera.
OH! Another question, I don't suppose any of these have the split ring focusing thing like I was used to in my mamiya by any chance, or how do they assist in manual focus?

Thanks again.
fofa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 23, 2007, 10:44 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Corpsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 879
Default

Where did you get those prices? It sounds like you're shopping at a less than reputable dealer.

Before buying from anywhere, be sure to look the company up on resellerratings.com. Be sure to read reviews carefully as some companies will give themselves lots of high reviews, be wary of brand new companies, and if a price seems too good to be true, it probably is.

If you do try buying a camera from a place like that, where the cameras are cheap but the accessories are expensive, what you'll typically find is that you will not be able to get the camera unless you buy a lot of severely overpriced accessories. If you don't buy them, you'll likely find your camera on back-order indefinitely. In any case, you will not get a good deal.

B&H Photo is probably the most trusted photography store used by people in this forum (bhphotovideo.com). I've also had positive experiences at buydig.com and beachcamera.com. I've heard they're techinically the same company, but sometimes one has a deal the other doesn't.

Good luck.
Corpsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 24, 2007, 12:30 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
VTphotog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Extreme Northeastern Vermont, USA
Posts: 4,214
Default

The old split prism focus screens are available for some DSLRs from various places. One I recall is called Katzeye. Useful for manual focus if you use it a lot, but there seem to be issues with exposure metering when using them. So far, I have found the matte screen to be accurate enough when using manual focus.

I would definitely go along with Corpsy about buying at a reputable dealer. There are a lot of scam artists around. When they get enough complaints, they change their name and reel in another bunch. Along with B&H, Adorama is also a strong contender. Both have used departments, and seem to rate equipment fairly conservatively. KEH is a used equipment dealer with a pretty large selection.

I went with a used *ist D, which I got on ebay, with battery grip, kit lens (which is better than OK) and a few other extras. Fella had the new camera fever. The camera features suited me better than the newer offerings at the time. I don't recommend you buy Pentax, though. The price of lenses is rising rapidly due to a lot of new owners, and I can't afford what I want now. :evil:

brian
VTphotog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 24, 2007, 7:47 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
BillDrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hay River Township, WI
Posts: 2,512
Default

fofa wrote:
Quote:
... Pentax K100D #349.00 plus $50.00 rebate for $309.00 ...
Not only at least as dubious as Corpsy thinks, but can't even do simple arithmatic. Just think of what they are likely to do with your credit card.

Take a look at the prices at a reputable dealer.
BillDrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 24, 2007, 7:55 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
Default

Canon switched lens mounts back in the 80's. Nikon's lens mount has evolved slowly (with backwards compatability in mind) for many many years.

You shouldn't have problems finding used and/or older lenses for either of those systems. Also, non OEM companies make good lenses for both thier systems.

I haven't kept up on the Nikon market as much as I should. Last I knew the D40 didn't have an AF motor in the body, which means you can only manual focus lenses that don't have their own AF motors in them. I wouldn't consider getting a camera like that if I could help it.

The Nikon D80 and D200 are great cameras (I know people who own them both.)
The Canon 30D and Rebel XTi are both great cameras (I know people who own them both.)

I can't comment on the others.
When you buy a DSLR, you are buying a system. The lenses are just as important. You'll keep them for many years, the body you might upgrade in 3-5 years. So look at the available lenses... think about how you'll use the camera... think about price, features.... all that stuff.

Then go to a store and handle the cameras. Things you won't find in a review will make a different to you (like the dim view finder issue you said.) You're hands are different than everyone elses, so a camera which feels good for me might not for you.

And I fully agree with others, those prices you list sound too good to be true. Use that website to look up the company and see if it isn't a scam.

Eric
eric s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 24, 2007, 9:42 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
fofa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 547
Default

BillDrew wrote:
Quote:
fofa wrote:
Quote:
... Pentax K100D #349.00 plus $50.00 rebate for $309.00 ...
Not only at least as dubious as Corpsy thinks, but can't even do simple arithmatic. Just think of what they are likely to do with your credit card.

Take a look at the prices at a reputable dealer.
I must admit, I may have typoed the $349.00 it should have been $359.00.
Those prices are the lowest I could find for each camera, and I don't think any two of them were from the same site. But I will check the site for the company. I was wondering about the Nikon D80, because about the only thing I could find on the D80 that was "not to my liking" was the images were a little softer than say the Rebel 400D and it did not have the dust removal or anti-shake. Not real sure if I need the anti-shake (the D80 has better high ISO quality) so you could step up the ISO to compensate like my S5200 does. The D80 did loose a little detail at the higher ISO settings (according to the reviews) which makes the sharpness look worse to me. But that brings back the whole can I get older Nikon prime lenses (manual focus is fine with me) at a better price, because Nikon and Canon lenses are pretty pricey.
But there is a lot I liked about the D80 review. I am trying not to get to caught up in the nit picky details like the D80 can do 2200 LLPH (I think it was llph) but the 400D can only do 2100 LLPH. Not sure that difference is as meaningful (thanks to the responses in this thread). Once I figure I have it down to a couple/few, I plan on go looking and handling to just make it feels good.
Thanks Again.
fofa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 24, 2007, 10:50 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Corpsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 879
Default

Nikon cameras tend to produce images that do look softer than those from Canon cameras. This all goes back to artificial sharpening. Canon cameras tend to do a good deal more processing to the images, including applying more sharpening. Nikon cameras tend to use more neutral settings that are more appropriate to photographers who may want to touch up the images themselves. You could probably turn the sharpness up on the Nikon to more closely match the Canon camera if you like.
Corpsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 26, 2007, 11:15 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 36
Default

The in-camera settings for sharpness are nice if you plan to print straight from the camera and shoot in jpg.

I tend to shoot in RAW and have those settings as neutral as possible. All digital images tend to need some sharpening to look good in print. it takes some trial and error to figure out how much. Its typically the last step of your post-processing work-flow....after you have corrected for any problems with exposure, levels, color and then cropped or re-sized to what you want your final print to be. Post-processing itself is tedious and takes some time.....if you have a large batch with the same needs it can often be automated.

Either way it adds a large chunk of time to process from RAW...much more convient to shoot in jpeg and tweak the cameras own processing functions to something you like if you can.

Oh, I own the rebel XTi and it can shoot RAW+JPG.....but you better have your storage media ready......
Krusteh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 26, 2007, 12:42 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
rjseeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky
Posts: 2,398
Default

Those prices listed are definitely not legit. You may be able to get the D50 for the price you've found, but the others are a sure ripoff. Anyone listing a price less than 10-15% of MSRP, is likely going to scam you with $200 batteries and chargers or other accessories that should come with the camera to begin with. The price listed for the D80 is almost 75% less than what it sells for at the legitimate sellers like B&H and Adorama.
rjseeney is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.