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Old Nov 16, 2007, 5:52 PM   #21
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It's your time and money. But, I would give a vendor an opportunity to correct it if you're not satifisied *before* filing complaints about it and posting messages in a public forum.

From what I understand, they offered to accept it back if you paid the shipping.

So, the only difference appears to be that shipping cost (and when international shipping is involved, I can see both sides of it). But, now that you've filed complaints and criticized the vendor in a public forum, I think you'll have a more difficult time resolving it.

I see a very detailed "terms and conditions" section in their Ebay listings that also indicate a buyer is responsible for shipping on any returns, unless agreed to otherwise, and this same terms and conditions section details things like time needed to resolve an issue and much more.

So, I would not be surprised to see this vendor post negative feedback, dispute your claims, point Ebay and Paypal to the terms and conditions shown in the listings and more. Good luck.

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Old Nov 16, 2007, 6:54 PM   #22
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JimC- "From what I understand, they offered to accept it back if you paid the shipping."

Actually, the seller did not exactly offer to accept it back. The seller only offer to inspect it, telling me I could send it back to their US office for inspection and that they could offer refund or exchange, but no promise of either when I asked in subsequent email about that. If I had been able to get anything more reassuring or at least some replies when I enquired, I may well have done what you suggested and returned it.

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Old Nov 16, 2007, 10:13 PM   #23
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If the item was sold as new, and made in Japan, it was misrepresented by the seller. However, International sales often cannot be held to the same standards of consumer protection as domestic sales.You should probably check with the relevant consumer protection agency for your area. I wouldn't hesitate to ask my Attorney General's office what my options were.

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Old Nov 16, 2007, 10:28 PM   #24
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I just don't see where you'd win this one. I see plenty of terms and conditions in the listing for it that even say it may ship from a different location, may not be intended for your region (implying that it's gray market), that you're responsible for shipping for returns, etc., etc. etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110187440355

A broken seal (IMO) is not a reason to raise such a fuss over it unless there is evidence that the item is used or something else is wrong. They may have even broke the seal to put in an English manual or compatible items for the U.S. for you (although the terms and conditions state that they don't guarantee a manual in your language will be provided, they will make an effort to include one).

Many manufacturers don't even have sealed boxes now.
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Old Nov 17, 2007, 4:49 AM   #25
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Thanks, VTphotog. The item was sold as New. It was not sold as something made in Japan, but it was definitelysold as New.I just received an email sent directly from the seller recommending that I accept the item if everything inside the box is ok and working because their RMA process would take 14 business days.I was asked, if I should choose not to accept, to immediately inform them so as to start ths RMA process. I think RMA meansReturn

Now, my choices seem to be either to accept this "New, Never Opened" item even though the box was opened, or, I have to pay to return the item to seller in their RMA process, losing another $50 (just guessing). For some reason the seller is not using the PayPal Claim process to communicate with me, using the PayPal Resolution Centre's method. I just checked and the status of that Claim is still "Waiting for seller's response". I am pretty sure seller should have been informed by PayPal that this has been escalated to a Claim and it should be dealt with using the Claim process.

I think I should wait for the PayPal process to sort this out. According to the Paypal claim process, the next step is for seller to respond in the Paypal resolution centre, and then I will review the seller's response, and then a Paypal Specialist will review the case. I want to see how the process work and see what if anything PayPal can do to protect me. At this stage however, I think I will not be able to recover the return shipping cost if I return it. I am still considering what to do, whether to return or accept the item, while waiting for the seller's response to the claim in Paypal's Resolution Centre.

JimC. I know very well I would not be winning this. Unless I have tons of money to hire laywers to take this up as a civil claim, I will not have any chance of recovering the cost of return shipment or any cost incurred to getting the refund. Look, as mentioned before, I am writing because I know how frustrating it is, and I hope what I am learning and will learn will be helpful to others. I am of course losing and I am the victim here. The purpose of the forum is to share and help each other, with information about cameras, as well as about how to enjoy our hobby, which should include avoiding nasty experience in purchasing. Yes, I have lost already, not a great deal of money, but it would be consolation if I know that what I have been put through can be used to help others avoid the same frustrating experience.


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Old Nov 17, 2007, 8:13 AM   #26
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Grandmelody wrote:
Quote:
Now, my choices seem to be either to accept this "New, Never Opened" item even though the box was opened, or, I have to pay to return the item to seller in their RMA process, losing another $50 (just guessing).
Where does it say that? I see new in the description line, but I can't find "Never Opened" anywhere.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110187440355

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Old Nov 17, 2007, 8:24 AM   #27
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it says this


[align=left]Condition:

New, Never Opened (its at right hand side of the description bit)[/align]
they may open before dispatch to check everything in there and working?
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Old Nov 17, 2007, 8:28 AM   #28
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You're right. I see it now.

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Old Nov 17, 2007, 8:40 AM   #29
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melody,

Does the camera work, or not?!!!

Sorry...

If it works, enjoy it, and move on.

If it doesn't, take it up with paypal.

You will never win a case regarding a broken seal with ebay...they protect their vendors...their vendors make them money - not you. If you want friendly, neighborly service, buy from your friendly, neighborhood store. You talk about 'losing' and being a 'victim', yet what did you lose? A principle?

You bought a camera - not a seal. If there wasn't a seal on the box, you'd be happily using your new camera now. Get over it!

the Hun


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Old Nov 17, 2007, 9:59 AM   #30
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i had a thought



could it be that sometimes box may be opened to make sure that the correct things are inside when shipped inter continent?? or just make sure that leads are correct

for instance in england we are 240 volts with 3pin square plugs......!!!

while looking the the seller feedback in depth i see the biggest issue is lack of response to emails etc...............hardly supprising with amount sold. with a little more effort he could have cut donw the negative feedbacks

Gary
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