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Old Nov 17, 2007, 4:10 PM   #31
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melody,

Does the camera work, or not?!!!

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Sorry... If it works, enjoy it, and move on. If it doesn't, take it up with paypal. You will never win a case regarding a broken seal with ebay...they protect their vendors...their vendors make them money - not you. If you want friendly, neighborly service, buy from your friendly, neighborhood store. You talk about 'losing' and being a 'victim', yet what did you lose? A principle? You bought a camera - not a seal. If there wasn't a seal on the box, you'd be happily using your new camera now. Get over it! the Hun
Excellent point. Whenever you buy something sight unseen from Ebay, you are taking a chance. Although there are things you can do to minimize your risks, you never know how things will turn out. I've been lucky..everything I've ever purchased has worked out ok, but I have mostly purchased small things...filters, caps, consumer grade lenses. I'm not sure I'm comfortable spending hundreds of dollars on anything on ebay. If I were buying something expensive, I'd rather go with someone who has 10,000 transactions, despite the posters reservations and reasons for not doing so. At least this company has a long track record and still is in business and not a fly by night seller. For expensive items, there are too many other reputable vendors like KEH, Adorama and B&H (to name a few) where I can still save money and get a bit more peace of mind. In this case, the vendor did everything he/she said he would, and the terms were clearly stated. If I as a seller wasn't given a chance to respond or make the situation right before disputes and negative feedback was filed, I'd have probably ignored the buyer as well. Yes, the new, unopened part was a bit inaccurate, but as long as everything functioned properly, I would be satisfied and move on. It's not worth the headaches, when there are many reasonable explanations as to why the seal was broken, some of which could have been done for the customers benefit.
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Old Nov 17, 2007, 5:39 PM   #32
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Thanks for your replies and input. I have tried to be careful and not touch the camera, in case it could be returned but now I think I have no choice.I will take it out, check the condition, use it and see if it works like a new camera should. I will do it today and let you know what I find.


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Old Nov 18, 2007, 1:53 AM   #33
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I have tried my HD700 now. It appears to be working but I have not tried everything. I am going to post my results in the other post about the HD700 review. Here:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...27&page=10

I am still however not totally comfortable, as there are some small issues and there is just no way of knowing whether the camera had been returned by another customer who tried it for a period and found it unacceptable. Those issues could well be normal characteristics of the Sanyo, given the compromise in designing such a tiny camera with so many features.


I noticed something else that may or may not be significant. I found that the battery was fully charged in just under 1 hour, even though the manual mentioned it would take 2 hours. Could that mean the battery was charged before, or the camera used by someone? I don't think it is normal for sellers or manufacturers to charge every camera to test the charging function as that would take a lot of time.Is it possible that the factory had tested this particular battery, which seems a bit of coincidence that the seal was broken, if the camera really had not been used at all.As it is, it only means more questions that cannot be answered. I don't know what really happened, but I don't think I want to buy another camera of this price range unseen from the Internet, given the terms,thelevel of trust and the chances of a quick and satisfactory resolution if ithere sould beissues.
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Old Nov 18, 2007, 5:42 AM   #34
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regarding battery

the recomend a set time to ensure full charge for all circumstances, to prolong battery life

with modile phones as with my sons new one they state 12 hours charge, yet it was showing full after 3 hours, it got left on for nearly the 12 hours specified

you got to weigh up the savings and ask yourself if its worth the risk, and it is a risk, when i got my cam the ebay saving compared with best shop price from a big chain of stores was £50........i decided it wasnt worth the risk



Gary
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Old Nov 18, 2007, 7:04 AM   #35
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Reanimator,

Knowing what I know now, I do agree with you that it's not worth the risk if the difference is <10%. I am however unable to get the camera in my country and I was preparing to travel, and want something small and light, and hopefully good as a hybrid camera. I am learning my lesson.
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Old Nov 18, 2007, 7:48 AM   #36
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I doubt that the battery charging quicker than stated is indictive of the camera previously being used. Many batteries are shipped with a small charge, and you will find your charging times will likely vary depending on usage and temperature over time. Again, relax and enjoy your camera. I almost think you're trying to find something wrong with the camera.
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Old Nov 18, 2007, 9:00 AM   #37
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Rjseeney,

Thanks for your reassuring words. I think you are right about the battery and I would certainly not have worried a bit about the charge or the zooming noise, as long as it works, if it hadn't been for the broken seal. I am tryingto make sure that there is nothing wrong with the camera. I certainly trust Sanyo's QA and their seal (if intact) as an indicator of a new and working camera and would not have tried to really look for faults, but given thatit was sold to me as "New, Never Opened" and yet arrived with a broken seal, is it not reasonable to check more carefully?
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 5:03 PM   #38
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As of now, no news yet. The status of the Paypal Claim about the "Broken Seal" case is still - awaiting seller's response. I will try to do more testing and see if everything is OK while I wait and see what the seller and Paypal is going to do. The seller has until Nov 25 to respond to the Claim.

As for the Finepix F30 camera, it should be on its way. I tracked the shipping and found that it had left the "exchange" in Japan apparently.

Thank you all for your interest. Will be updating as soon as there is something new happening.
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Old Nov 20, 2007, 5:02 PM   #39
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Some good news. I received an advice left in my letter box that there is a EMS parcel waiting for me to pick up at the post office. It should be the Fuji F30 ordered on Nov6, but sent only on Nov 15, and only after I raised a PayPal claim. Still, I will be very happy indeed if it comes in an unopened box as described. Again, a "New, Never Opened" item. I had tried to make sure that expensive items are unopened when I decide who to buy from and so I was not happy when something still arrived with a broken seal.

I know some of you think that I am making a big deal out of this, and I tried to think and consider everthing that happened as I review the purchase from X1387. I also considered the seller's perspective too. Here are my thoughts. I understand that the seller would want to inspect and make sure that the buyer did not just buy something for a trial shoot and return it (though it would be quite costly considering the return shipment that is payable by the buyer), or that the buyer changed his/her mind, or may even have accidently drop the camera and want to return it. Sellers should be protected too.

On the other hand, there is even more need to protect the buyer IMO, as the buyer has to pay first, before seeing the goods, trusting the seller to deliver what's promised. I agree that the buyer should pay to get the item back to seller, if there is something wrong inside a sealed box as the seller would have no way of knowing that and can be assumed to have been completely innocent in any defect, etc. In my case, i.e. when a promised Never Opened box has arrive with a broken seal, then the seller should be responsible, just as if the seller has shipped the wrong item, to fix everything including paying for the shipping to return/exchange, since it is all the seller's fault, and a breach of contract. I know what the returnpolicy says, but it is reasonable to assume that the return policy (at least the spirit and intention of it) is to ask buyer to be partly responsible for problems that are unexpected and due to unknown reasons. If however a wrong product was shipped, or if a used or opened box was shipped contrary to what was promised, then I feel that there is a case for the seller to answer and to try to fix.

I was raising this matter here to warn others what could happen, even if you do nothing wrong, when buying from Ebay. I am not happy and did not just accept the item, because I feel I have been cheated by someone, if not the seller in US, then someone in HK who put the box into FedEx bag. Whichever way, it is the company that should be responsible to find out, if not to re-imburse me for return shipping thanks to the unfair return policy. You would think that the selling company would be more concerned and have been more responsive and would try to investigate quickly IF it had not intended to ship an unopened box. I have no reason to doubt that the seller intended to deliver as promised an Unopened box. The fact is however, or the only logical conclusion without further evidence, is that someone working for the seller has put in knowingly a box with a broken manufacturer's seal. I am disappointed not just because of that, but also because of the indifferent attitude that is apparently shown, by the tardy responses and what I think is evasive and selective answers. Also, the last message to me suggesting that I just accept the item, after checking that it is working. If I were the seller, I would want to find out and investigate, to see what happened to the seal, and prevent future problems and not just try to talk the buyer to accept.

At this time, I am still waiting for the Paypal Claim process to finish. The status is still -awaiting a response from seller. I am not confident of a proper satisfactory outcome, as I am losing faith in the process and I don't want to risk losing more money or damage to the camera by returning it. I may have to just accept it in the end. I know some of you think this is too much, but I would feel happier if I can help others avoid the same problem. Thanks for reading.
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Old Nov 20, 2007, 8:18 PM   #40
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UPDATE 1 - X1387 - HD700 sent to me with broken seal.

Today I received notice from Paypal that the seller agreed to refund in full the amount I paid, provided I return everything in original condition and I am responsible for the return shipping cost.

I considered the offer, and send a reply (below in italics) before cancelling the Paypal Claim I raised, explaining the reason why I chose not to return it.

(My Reply to Paypal)

Thanks for your reply.

There are two issues that I am considering before I know whether I should return the item to seller.

1. I will be losing $50 or so, not to mention a lot of time and energy, by returning it, and I do not feel it is fair to me. I do not believe I have been protected enough. If the box had arrived with a seal unbroken, and if there are issues like defects, I would have been glad to pay to return it for a refund/exchange since the seller has no way of knowing what's inside the box and could not be blamed for something wrong inside a box they could not get into, and I would have felt OK to do my part paying for the return to resolve the issue. In this case, however, unless I have other evidence that the FedEx bag had been tampered with, it would be reasonable to assume that someone working for the seller had put a box with a broken manufacturer's seal inside the FedEX and shipped it, knowingly, when the item was advertised on Ebay as "New, Never Opened". So, I feel that the seller should be responsible for fixing the whole problem, including paying for the return shipping cost. I don't think that would happen, but I would like you to consider my point. I am inclined not to return the item.

2. Another reason I am hesitating, apart from cost and fairness, is a matter of trust. If I can no longer trust the seller, due to various things that happened as explained, then should I continue to trust the seller in determining whether what I am asked to send back is complete and in original condition. What if the seller should find that something is not in the original condition (whether or not I have done anything or is responsible for whatever that's found wrong)? What if the seller should find that something is missing in the box (even though I put everything I received back into it). Who is the judge? Can I trust the seller to be honest and not try to get back at me by claiming there is something wrong, or that the camera is damaged (which could still be the case even before I received it)? This is why I think I am definitely not going to return the item. I do not think it is wise for me to trust this seller. That's it.

Thank you for your attention and help. Having considered my situation, I do not wish to return the item now.

I will cancel the Claim, and accept that I have to put up with receiving something not what was advertised by the seller, rather than taking more risk.

Grandmelody


I would like to add that I have resigned to the fact that I will not get any joy from this and I just gave in and accepted, and cancelled the Claim. I was not happy but there is nothing more I think I should do if I am wise. There was in Paypal Resolution, no facility tolet to raiseany pointsfor further consideration.The above reply was sent to Paypal by normal email. Inside theResolution Center, after reading the instruction from Paypal to send the item back for refund, I had only 2 choices - Cancel the Claim,or,Send the Tracking Info if I choose to send the item back. It was a reluctant cancellation, but I then received a message from Paypal saying that the case was closedsince it was "amicably resolved". So it appears it has become another happy and successful resolution I suppose for Paypal Resolution process.
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