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Old Sep 28, 2003, 9:59 AM   #21
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yes they are OS dependent.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 1:01 PM   #22
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IMO the 5700 may be good two years ago (even though I think a D7Hi/i is far superior in features and usability), but this camera is getting long in the tooth and newer/better competitor like the A1(or the F828) is already here
The 5700 has only been out for 18 months(?) where I am. I paid a pretty hefty premium and even though the 5700 is 'not' a true dSLR I hardly consider it a 'consumer camera'. A $400 camera is a consumer camera, not a $1600 one. If this class of cameras are considered outdated in a years time I may as well get a true SLR that will last for 10+ years and save my money.
With all due respect, the 5700 takes great photos now and without mechanical failure will continue to do so for 2+ years from now.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 1:14 PM   #23
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A computer generation is only 6 months, so if digital cameras follow the same rule the 5700 is three generations old already!
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 3:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by NHL
Most images are soft directly out of the camera, including my 10D. This is done in purpose so that it allows you some level of sharpening afterward... doing it internally to the camera is irreversible and takes away your control over sharpness! (Beside this is one of the camera user's customable setting) :P
I understand that, but for some reason, the softness of the A1 reminds me of an image that's been processed through the "Despeckle" filter in Photoshop. The "grain" (if you will) of the camera looks diamond-shaped.

I looked through a bunch of shots that I've taken with my CoolPix 990 and found a comparable grassy lawn shot to go with one that Steve took with the Minolta:






(Click on the above images for a larger view.)

Notice how the grass in the Minolta image starts to clump up together in a very pixelated way? While in the Nikon image, the grass just gets softer? Is that a feature that can be turned off in the Minolta? Or is it just the way it processes images?

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Regarding Noise... Do most people zoom in 200-400x to look for it or judge the quality of a picture by stepping back and look @ its composition and lighting?
I look at a photo 100% in Photoshop (or whatever image viewer) and if I can see noise--especially in the shadow areas--I'd say it's noisy.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 4:33 PM   #25
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look i own a 1Ds and use it regularly with the internal NR off. it has noise in all shots from iso 100 to 1250. having tha size of image that i do it can be dealt with a little easier. they do not make a digital camera yet that is noiseless. you have to decide what you can tolerate as a balance of noise (which can be dealt with to a certain extent) functionality (both mechanical and electrical) which cannot be improved upon w/o purchasing new camera.

neat image if used with a degree of reason and finesse can eliminate the issue but you need to work with it a while to learn. i even use it wih my scanned slides.

you can scream "i hate noise" all you want but for now its here and if your going to wait for a technological miracle to happen your gonna miss a lot of shots you want.

i just sold my 7Hi and already miss it. probably in a few weeks i'll get an A1 as my light travel camera. its still the best bang for the buck in my eyes. i prefer to do my own NR in the privacy of my home.

i don't use images off of a site as a reference they've been stomped on a few too many times via compression and the net. your 2 images are not comparible since they are not the same image at equivelent resolution at the same magnification.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 5:49 PM   #26
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That picture from the A1 is not good at all. I would expect more for that price! (It should be said that I haven't looked at the pictures in PS. Maybe it would look better there.) And sjms has a good point. It really isn't fair to compare them as we don't know how much compression was applied to the A1's images.

sjms

I have a semi-pro friend who also uses it on scanned slides. That is when he really wishes it were faster. Running it on 300MB images takes a long time!

Eric
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 6:08 PM   #27
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hey eric,

i'm going to try to persuade them support HT tech on the P4 line. that should at leasts do a 10% increase in the processing via multithreading. i'm doing a 2.9ghz machine. it can still take up to 3-5 minutes on some images.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 6:14 PM   #28
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I found some more images on the Minolta site:
http://www.dimage.minolta.com/a1/sample.html
Those look much better, but there's still a hint of that weird pixelation especially in the hair of Sample Image 1.

The images from dpreview.com are more consistent with Steve's images.

I guess I'll (we'll) have to wait for full reviews with images from real production models to really know...
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 6:24 PM   #29
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Well, all I can say is my 5700 will continue to satisfy clients and myself. Until a real improvement comes and not a "next model" I'll save my money for a top-end dSLR in a couple of years.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 10:22 PM   #30
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lunarboy

Theses are pictures taken with the A1 from an experienced D7Hi, and 10D owner:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=6195411
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=6205342
1/20s @ 176mm

Why haven't you look at the 300D/Digital Rebel? for $999 lens included its noise characteristic sure looks good even compared to a D100 (iso 200 and not 100)!
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page19.asp

Is it because of the superb IS or the all-in one lens?
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