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Old Nov 8, 2003, 9:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by kex
... But how do I know, they're good, before I can see them ...?
When you can answer that question, you will be a master photographer. It won't matter if you are using a 16x20" view cqmera or a BarbiCam, your images will be worth viewing.
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Old Nov 8, 2003, 9:12 AM   #12
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I've been lucky and only had SLRs (my first is an old Pentax K1000 that I got when I was 13.) Bullet Proof (literally, made of steel) and fully manual except for a light meter, but I learned a lot (when I used it. Like you guess, developing is expensive.)

It is true that replaceable lenses can be expensive. But depending on what you do, you only need 1 or 2 lenses, and some aren't more than $100-200USD. I don't know what your definition of "cheap" or "expensive" is. From your last post, it does sound like this might not be a great idea. Pity, because full SLRs are a great way to learn.

One way to get camera equipment around here are photographic flemarkets. The show rents a hall/school gym/whatever and people sell use equipment. You can get decent stuff much cheaper that way. The problem is "much cheaper" might not be low enough. It could be worth looking into, though. The only one I've been to had almost no digital, but lots of older cheap film 35-mm stuff.

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But then again, of course I could just shoot the ones I think are good.
This is something I'm becoming more aware of as I've been shooting. I need to develop in multiple ways. First is to learn the camera (what it's capabile of and how to get it to do it) the second is my brain. I'm starting to think that the ease of taking loads of pictures might go against training my brain. I frequent a rather serious forum of nature photographers (I'm way out of my league there.) It's interesting to read how they've learning to look at the world like a camera does. I would like to gain that skill, but I to get there I'm starting to think that I have to take fewer picture and think more about them first. Just a little digression, I guess.

Eric
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Old Nov 8, 2003, 6:43 PM   #13
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Default Something to consider

Try to parlay some of your current digital/film equipment into a digital camera with full manual controls. One that I would look at hard is an Olympus C2100UZI. They can be had as refurbs (or used) for around $350.00 and will give you full manual controls, 10x optical zoom with image stabilization and the ability to use a synch cord for off camera lighting.

Learning the relationships between aperture & shutter speed is imperative to getting good images with a film (or any) SLR, but you can learn a lot (if you pay attention) while using a good digital camera in manual mode...without the cost of film/ processing, etc.
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Old Nov 9, 2003, 6:00 AM   #14
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Many people can now afford the cheaper cams and are popping off shots like mad wondering why people still use film - this is the competition! However, give even a modest digicam to a 'photographer' who knows how to compose, use a digital darkroom, and appreciate limitations back to the shooting stage and you WILL produce better pics. I picked up my first 1Mpix digicam last week. With what I've learned and a reasonable shooting situation, I could now get far better pics out of it if I wanted to!

On the film cam subject, as BillD says, there are some real bargains in top end SLR's and superb lenses from the top manufacturers. If you just get the film negs developed, scanned and can preview them before deciding on prints - that must be quite cheap. However, you will soon be working up to a DSlr - and they cost at the mo. VOX
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Old Nov 9, 2003, 3:15 PM   #15
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Kex, what a wonderful topic for discussion! I see you have been given some excellent advice:

BillDrew's advice of getting a used SLR is great if you haven't used one before; I would add that an inexpensive camera course would help you to understand the basics of photography.

I can personally vouch that Kalypso's advice of an UZI is great for one who learned on an SLR and wants a camera to grow with! In addition to full Program mode, the Aperture/Shutter/Manual modes give you all the flexibility you will want or need for even the most challenging shots! I sold all my SLR equipment within a year after purchasing the Olympus C-2100, and have been completely satisfied with my choice.

This having been said, I think there is great wisdom in the old addage, "Experience is the best teacher, but also the most expensive." Learn by doing! Take lots of pictures, try different things, but expect to make mistakes, too!

Don't let it get you down that you either ran out of batteries, or forgot to charge them up fully. Don't let it bother you that you wrote over an original image that would have been a prize-winning shot if you had just cropped it a little differently. Take the time to experiment with your aperture and shutter settings, and take some strongly backlit portraits without fill-in flash just to see what difference lighting and exposure makes. It doesn't cost you anything to take too many shots and just delete the ones (later, in your digital darkroom) you're sure you don't want. What's important is to learn from the mistakes you make, and try not to repeat them!

I believe you are on the right track, already looking for improvements. Learning from others' experiences is also a valuable tool, and this is why many of us contribute regularly and rely heavily upon the posts here at Steve's Digicams. I hope this is helpful, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts here publicly.
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Old Nov 9, 2003, 3:44 PM   #16
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Kex, what a wonderful topic for discussion!
Thanks.

Quote:
I see you have been given some excellent advice:

BillDrew's advice of getting a used SLR is great if you haven't used one before; I would add that an inexpensive camera course would help you to understand the basics of photography.

I can personally vouch that Kalypso's advice of an UZI is great for one who learned on an SLR and wants a camera to grow with! In addition to full Program mode, the Aperture/Shutter/Manual modes give you all the flexibility you will want or need for even the most challenging shots! I sold all my SLR equipment within a year after purchasing the Olympus C-2100, and have been completely satisfied with my choice.
Yes. My thought of getting an SLR is getting more and more stronger, day by day.
And I guess that's gonna be the right way, though I wanted to staya digital.
But it will, for sure be a good way for my developement.

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"Experience is the best teacher, but also the most expensive." Learn by doing! Take lots of pictures, try different things, but expect to make mistakes, too!
True words! This saying can be assigned for many things in life.
And I'll take that to heart.

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Don't let it get you down that you either ran out of batteries, or forgot to charge them up fully.
I've never ran out of batteries.

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Don't let it bother you that you wrote over an original image that would have been a prize-winning shot if you had just cropped it a little differently.
Didn't happen either, yet.


All jokes aside.
I know what you mean, and I really appreciate your supporting words!

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I believe you are on the right track, already looking for improvements. Learning from others' experiences is also a valuable tool
That's right. You can't learn everything by yourself, and I've learned ...

Quote:
and this is why many of us contribute regularly and rely heavily upon the posts here at Steve's Digicams.
... a lot at steve's digicams yet, and that's why I appreciate the honest comments and advices in this forum.

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I hope this is helpful, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts here publicly.
This thread was indeed very helpful for me! And thank YOU for all your answers and reading!

Greets.
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Old Nov 9, 2003, 3:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lg
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BillDrew's advice of getting a used SLR is great if you haven't used one before ...
had to go back and look - I didn't specifically say SLR or 35mm. In fact I was thinking as much of a 4x5" sheet film camera. You are likely to be able to find a Speed Graphic for under $100, though the real shutter speed is likely to have no relation to the what you set it to. A SLR is a good choice, but if you know of a good photo shop you might consider a large format camera.

Since you now have a digicam, spend some time with it shooting your Town Hall, a bridge, your own house, ..., anthing that doesn't move very much and is close by. Shoot it untill you are borred with looking at it, and then keep on shooting. Look at your pictures to figure out what time of day works best, where is the best place to stand to take the picture at that time of day, what settings you used (f/stop, shutter speed, ISO, focal length). When you have all that figured out, shoot it with a film camera.

If you decide to try that path, I would strongly suggest that you spend some money on a GOOD tripod before you get the film camera. It will be usefull with your digicam untill you save up the money for a film camera. One of the advantage of using a tripod is that it slows you down and forces you to think about what you are doing.

Even if you don't consider a film camera, a tripod is a good idea. You will want one some day, and if you wait the price of digicams will come down while you are learning how to use it.
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Old Nov 10, 2003, 10:54 AM   #18
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Hey Kex, our situations seem to be quite alike, the difference be that you have two cams, and I have only one, an Oly C-740UZ!

I have thought of most of the very same questions you are asking now, although I never had the nerve to ask it all in one sitting like you just did.

I will be keeping an eye on this thread.
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