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Old Oct 18, 2009, 11:37 PM   #191
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What do we say when something bad happens after the cops were warned about it and failed to act? Here they did the minimum they are expected to do, did it and end of story. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 1:02 AM   #192
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What do we say when something bad happens after the cops were warned about it and failed to act? Here they did the minimum they are expected to do, did it and end of story. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.
I my self was a victim so many times by the LAW I see that the Law is at fault here sure there are those that will serve and protect but then again there are those that are against the people as if they live to serve the Law as if they are not a willing soul of the person as they were born in the flesh.. and when it came to pass they had followed the path of the very same that had brought pain and suffrage upon the very face of earth thru the use of what they exclaim right when in the eyes of the very chosen it is a blasphemy of the law of enjoying life and the very things our lordship of life has given us the enjoyment of Beauty in the form of life not just in what is forever (Land Sky Rivers Falls Ocean Trees Flowers) but the very life that was made to record it all for the future generations to come... via pictures what it means to share the very thoughts and wisdom of those whom have been before them (ie the future generations) for if they keep on Waring and killing and raising the prices and declaring that there is only one supperiour race here on earth it could come to be a world that knows no love or peace or harmony so through the works of Photographers ,Writers and being Good Neighbors with our neighbors we leave the very legancy of what is to be called of all the good lords peoples...of a good life here with in the very form of life....In Peace and Harmony we are here to balance out the world for the future generations not just perserve the earth of our useage.. Its the others that dont agree that are the ones that will be finding that they are at fault... I have learned by the fault of the Law and those that uphold the law in the form of evil ways of degradeing the peoples of good.....
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 1:09 AM   #193
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So take the pictures and enjoy them to the fullest for recording is the way the Good Lord started the matters at hand and don't worry if you have done no wrong there is no harm done and as I say push the fliers to the very hilt of the very ill of what the police are doing and be wise on the issues yes if you get a call from the police tell them it was not an issue of any concern that you have not broken no law you were in the public eye...and god sees all.... don't they have any knowledge of the eyes you speak of.... in today's world we all know how others cause problems for so many...Big Brother needs to learn manners that they use to have....seems we have a few Atheist inside the eye now days.
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 1:31 AM   #194
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If you want to talk about statistical blips, things that have to be given as .001 possibilities, we should then launch into the dangers of lightning to the public, and perhaps people with cameras are responsible.

Dave
Statistical blip: 'Tylenide' ( Tylenol contaminated with cyanide)
Result: We now have triple sealed packaging for nearly everything, except what we pick fresh. Is this a bad or good thing in your view?

Statistical blip: 9/11/2001.
Result: Too much to begin to discuss here. Was the Patriot Act a good or bad thing in your view?

Statistical blip: 14 year old girl lured to rape and murder, by her uncle (step uncle or something like that) via Myspace. The uncle lived half-way across the country, but the stepfather, in emails, practically invited him to do the girl. (stepfather was also a sex offender)
Result: none, yet. Should the Law provide a way to attempt to prevent this sort of thing, or only be able to step in after the fact?

brian
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 3:32 AM   #195
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Incorrect, otherwise the police would not have to ask permission to search your vehicle. ( USA)

brian

No Brian, they HAVE the right to search your vehicle..and they have the right to search you...

They need a search warrant to search your house (private space), but not for your car...

check it out...
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 8:16 AM   #196
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No Brian, they HAVE the right to search your vehicle..and they have the right to search you...

They need a search warrant to search your house (private space), but not for your car...

check it out...
Yes, check it out...

Searches without a warrant are permissible by law under some circumstances and these include:

Consent searches. Any citizen who agrees voluntarily to a search by officers waives his or her rights under the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution. Any incriminating materials or evidence found during a consent search provides law enforcement officers with the right to detain, arrest, and confiscate.

Plain View Rule. If a motorist is stopped for a traffic violation and he or she has an illegal substance or possession (i.e. drugs or a weapon) in plain view, an officer does not require a search warrant to investigate further.

Searches made in connection with a legal arrest. If a motorist is arrested for driving under the influence, then a search of his or her vehicle is permissible under law.
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 12:07 PM   #197
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Well. neither you nor I will or can definitively state what the Supreme courts in the US have been debating for sometime.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...8/ai_55343322/

But suffice to say the first sentence states that search warrant for vehicles are unnecessary. (for the purposes here.) And courts have been upholding that for sometime time. Vehicles include RV's and houseboats, of which some have argued are homes.

What should be clear to those who read the article, is that laws are written to keep lawyers employed , there is never really a clear cut answer to many situations. Even if it's been one way yesterday its another tomorrow.

In keeping with the vein of this thread, it would seem that ALL parties, photographers, parents, and cops are, on a daily basis, attempting to find the line of appropriateness.

This is consistent with many of societies issues. What was considered immoral years ago is ok today (sex on tv for example), and what was considered ok years ago isn't today (pics of kids or guns in pickups).

Is more sex on TV good or bad for society? Is restricting pics of kids on the streets good or bad for society?

There will always be pros and cons for both sides, and society will always test and challenge and alter the 'line' as it evolves. But rest assured, it will never be perfect.

But one thing we can all agree on, is that we ARE lucky to live in a country where we can take photos many things that would never be permitted in other parts of the world.
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 3:19 PM   #198
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Ya you got that right. Ive seen people arrested and beaten for taking innocent pictures of buildings and people and got caught and paid their price.
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 6:10 PM   #199
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... either of which, I hope you'll agree, could be suspicious.

Can we agree on that?
I have given a number of circumstances which meet all the critieria of being suspicious. And?

In and of itself, taking a picture of children is no more suspicious than looking at children. At the present time, there is such hysteria, that looking at children is defacto suspicious. This is lunacy. It's harmful to children and society as a whole. And as a final irony, is actually counter-productive

"When everyone is a suspect, no one is a suspect"

Dave
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 6:43 PM   #200
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Statistical blip: 'Tylenide' ( Tylenol contaminated with cyanide)
Result: We now have triple sealed packaging for nearly everything, except what we pick fresh. Is this a bad or good thing in your view?

Statistical blip: 9/11/2001.
Result: Too much to begin to discuss here. Was the Patriot Act a good or bad thing in your view?

Statistical blip: 14 year old girl lured to rape and murder, by her uncle (step uncle or something like that) via Myspace. The uncle lived half-way across the country, but the stepfather, in emails, practically invited him to do the girl. (stepfather was also a sex offender)
Result: none, yet. Should the Law provide a way to attempt to prevent this sort of thing, or only be able to step in after the fact?

brian
Statistical blips are not a factor in my life. I do my best to protect myself and those I love to face the real dangers of life. Should you avoid walking in a forest because a tree may fall and crush you? Should the authorities make laws mandating no forests?

You open the door to a discussion on philosophy, which is not quite relevant.

We have Bynx saying, (pardon the quotes) "Doesn't the posting of my childrens image on the Internet, create a statistical factor which increases the possiblity of harm?"

Maybe. And Maybe it increases the statistical possibility of them being helped. Once you start living your life in terms of 0.0001 percent probabilities, you might as well just jump in the grave and get it over with.

Do his kids particpate in organised school sports? Are the volunteers? All of these would likely result in their picture being in a newspaper, which is to say, On The Internet.

Yet a nameless person photographed by some individual in public, dressed in a normal manner, is an absolutely harmless activity. There is no measurable chance that such an image could produce harm. If the persons we are worried about take such a picture, it's really irrelevant - Because they will act, or not act based in the image in their brain.

If a sexual predator is after his kids it wont be through some picture posted on the internet. And just as I was warned not to go with a stranger, no doubt Bynx, and all other responsible parents have done the same.

There are pedophiles, and a pedophile in and of himself is not the main problem. The problem is, those who act these fantasies out.

Is pedophilia a disease or a normal human facet? If it's a disease then our approach to this illness is to tell them that their lusts are perfectly normal. Why else are we having this discussion. Is it not some sort of admission that a demurely dressed prepubescent child is a subject of lust?

Society as a whole has chosen to sexualise their children. Beauty pagents in which five years olds dress as mature woman. Clothing for twelve years olds, so that they can be "hot." And then a crazed hysteria, where anyone and everyone who takes a shot of a kid is defacto acting suspiciously

We increase the dangers to our children, and then blame the nearest handy target. Prebubescent children do not arouse a normal person, yet we act as if they do.

Do I care if a pedophile, gets his rocks off in front of his computer? I do not, because he is harming no one. The picture is not the person, and the person is not being defiled. What I worry about is those who ACT on their lusts, and we are telling them that their lusts are rational.

In other words, 95 percent of pedophiles are rational enough to know that acting on this is WRONG! So why are we telling them that their lusts are ok?

And then there are those people who are not necessarily pedophiles, but are deeply disturbed individuals who do not live a normal life. We are telling THEM that abusing children is a rational activity.

Bank robbery, might be criminal, but it is also rational. Acting out on a desire to abuse children is NOT RATIONAL. So why are we acting as if it is?

To sum up, those who believe that pictures taken in a normal manner in a public place inherently contain the possiblity of harm, are not responding to a real danger. They are allowing the fear a tree falling in the forest to rule their lives. If they believe they are doing themselves or their children any good, they are mistaken. They are in fact doing the opposite, in the same way that a human being would be crippled by being denied a walk in the woods, so they are inflicting a heavy burden of fear onto their own children.

Dave
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