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Old Oct 23, 2009, 5:09 PM   #321
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I wouldn't have done anything, running the guys plates through a computer to see if he's got a record would be legitimate. Making a phone call isn't. It's inhernently scary to be informed that the police are checking to see if you are a pedophile.

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Fortunately for the citizens of the US Dave, you're not the one deciding whether it's legit to make a phone call or not.
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 5:17 PM   #322
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Yes, the responses of the crowd are irrational, and I'm certain that each and every member, in retrospect, recognizes that fact, especially since the man was taking photos of his own children.

But in the OP's situation, the parent was concerned, and the RCMP investigated, and the OP's account doesn't describe anyone as hysterical. Indeed, the OP didn't have any direct contact with the parent that you describe as being afflicted with hysteria.
Hysteria is an exhibition of irrational fear. I see little to choose between these two situations, with the exception that THESE parents DIDN'T call the police.

There's another folk expression to cover this: "Making a mountain of a mole hill. Other members of this board have expressed similar feelings about similar situations. They'll "take a tire iron to anyone who photographs their kids."

Calling the police, registering a complaint, over a simply photograph is a manifestation of irrational fear. This situation is NOT one that has taken place in isolation.

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]I'm impressed that you can diagnose these things fourth hand, from postings on an internet website, and at a distance of 2,400 miles. Do you do parties?
As I've repeadedly stated we are all going on the basis of the OP's post. If such is the case then calling THE COPS over a simple image is an irrational reaction. Fear of boogyman using your childs image AS PORN is just plain nuts.

Sheesh. How many times have you read people worrying that someone will use photoshop to graft your kids head onto an abused child. You really think this actually happens! You think the kiddie porn industry, wastes its time with photoshop when they have industrialised abuse in other countries?
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 5:17 PM   #323
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so we are only supposed to follow up on crimes committed by people with records?

because without a record, following up on a complaint would somehow violate someone's rights?

i still don't get what the problem is here. no one was arrested, no charges were filed. the police followed up appropriately on a complaint and both sides are fine. the father felt more secure. the photographer was made aware that shooting children through car windows could be making someone feel uneasy.

what exactly is the problem.
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 5:19 PM   #324
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why does this always go back to child pornography?

there are plenty of other crimes not involving pedophilia or pornography associated with the surveillance of a child. abduction is the first that comes to mind.
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 5:31 PM   #325
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Fortunately for the citizens of the US Dave, you're not the one deciding whether it's legit to make a phone call or not.
Unfortunately for the USA, the fear of pedophiles is destroying the lives of children far more than actual pedophiles do. If you actually believe that causing your child to live in fear of all adults is healthy you are mistaken.

If you believe the side effects of this hysteria is good for the country, you are mistaken.

If you think there will be no ramifications of Daddy's telling his daugher that he's going to protect her from this man, you are mistaken.

If you think that it's healthy for adults to avoid children, you are mistaken.

Real risks and real fears are what we do our best to protect children from; to inform them that all adults should be avoided like the plague, is a vast irrational institutionalisation of boogymen.

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Old Oct 23, 2009, 5:37 PM   #326
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Unfortunately for the USA, the fear of pedophiles is destroying the lives of children far more than actual pedophiles do. If you actually believe that causing your child to live in fear of all adults is healthy you are mistaken.

If you believe the side effects of this hysteria is good for the country, you are mistaken.

If you think there will be no ramifications of Daddy's telling his daugher that he's going to protect her from this man, you are mistaken.

If you think that it's healthy for adults to avoid children, you are mistaken.

Real risks and real fears are what we do our best to protect children from; to inform them that all adults should be avoided like the plague, is a vast irrational institutionalisation of boogymen.

Dave

i don't think anyone is saying children should fear all adults, or adults should fear children.

however, shooting someone else's child through the car window in your car is suspicious. and the right actions were taken. for god sakes look at the picture, it looks like a survelance photo found in a folder from a private eye, these types of photos are suspicious.

i dont think anyone is saying any interaction between child and adult should be reported, or followed up. or that there should be no interactions between adults and children.
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 6:03 PM   #327
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Hysteria is an exhibition of irrational fear.
See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hysteria

Nothing about "irrational" in there. People get hysterical about rational fears too.

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Calling the police, registering a complaint, over a simply photograph is a manifestation of irrational fear. This situation is NOT one that has taken place in isolation.
Sheesh! You still don't get it! It's not the photographing, it's the suspicion of wrongdoing! The camera is irrelevent.

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Sheesh. How many times have you read people worrying that someone will use photoshop to graft your kids head onto an abused child.
I never read that. Perhaps you could find some examples.

Look. People have fears, both rational and irrational. They may or may not report situations when others stimulate their fears, rational or irrational. The police don't know, nor do they care, if the fear is irrational. All they do is investigate. And even if they didn't find anything, that doesn't mean the fear was irrational.
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 6:10 PM   #328
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i don't think anyone is saying children should fear all adults, or adults should fear children.

however, shooting someone else's child through the car window in your car is suspicious. and the right actions were taken. for god sakes look at the picture, it looks like a survelance photo found in a folder from a private eye, these types of photos are suspicious.

i dont think anyone is saying any interaction between child and adult should be reported, or followed up. or that there should be no interactions between adults and children.
I could post literally thousands of horror stories of parents being harrased because they took nude pictures of their own children, people no longer being allowed to photograph school plays, sports activities, etc, etc.

Now in all sincerety, just what are the psychological effects on BOTH children and adults when the taking of harmless pictures automatically makes the photographer a suspect?

Tell me what YOUR reaction would be if you were taking pictures of your kids and their friends, only to be accused of being a pedophile? Aside from rage at those who were making the accusations, would you be so quick to take these kinds of pictures again? And is this healthy? Is this good for kids and adults alike? And if all of this kind of photography was defacto banned because of fear, would this also cut down on pedophilia?

The very definition of irrational fear.

Dave
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 6:21 PM   #329
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And while I respect Craig's, Dave's and javacleve's opinion that they would not have called the police or if they were the police would not have followed up, I'm still siding Dustin, TCAV, Kazua that it was suspicious activity and again siding with them as well as the two law enforcement officers that the police officer was not out of line for making the call. No one was hurt and no one's rights were violated.

Again - let's repeat the mantra - EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT and CONTEXT MATTERS. Dave's posted situation is completely different in the DETAILS of THE ACTIVITY. Remember, it's the BEHAVIOR and ACTIVITY which are suspicious, not the photo itself in this case.
Just to clarify, I've amended my original statements...I realize that there could be reasons for the father to be suspicious (I agree that context matters), and that the police must follow up once they are called (based on your information, John G).
I just don't like it, in the sense that I agree with Chato that the overall effect on our society has been chilling. And, I do think we need to be careful about automatically accepting everything that law enforcement does as being necessary and acceptable...it IS good to question things, I think. I appreciate the questions Chato is raising and the points he is making.
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Old Oct 23, 2009, 6:21 PM   #330
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See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hysteria

Nothing about "irrational" in there. People get hysterical about rational fears too.
"Excessive or uncontrollable emotion, such as fear."

Err, that means "irrational" The above is from a medical dictionary.


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Sheesh! You still don't get it! It's not the photographing, it's the suspicion of wrongdoing! The camera is irrelevent.
You mean he looked at the kid, and the guy would call the cops?


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I never read that. Perhaps you could find some examples.

Look. People have fears, both rational and irrational. They may or may not report situations when others stimulate their fears, rational or irrational. The police don't know, nor do they care, if the fear is irrational. All they do is investigate. And even if they didn't find anything, that doesn't mean the fear was irrational.
As I said to John, running the plates through a computer would have been overkill, but at least reasonable. Why the call? Why scare people with a defacto declaration that YOU are being investigated as the lowest kind of pervert?

How would YOU feel if you were shooting a beach that happened to have some children on it, and good old Dad thinks your a pervert, takes down your plate number and YOU get a call from the Cops?

Dave
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