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Old Feb 22, 2010, 8:46 PM   #61
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But if you look at the market that the D5000 is slot, it is counter productive. It is 100+ more expensive then the pentax which is a bit pricey but not the same price of the body alone. It is an entry level camera, and there should be entry level lens for it. The canon XSi is a low cost camera, you can slap a 100 dollar 50mm 1.8 on it or a 200 dollar 28mm 2.8 on it. Not everyone wants to put out the heavy investment on prime lenses with a entry level dslr. Or has the money to upgrade to the next tier to get the uses of the low price primes out there. Kind of defeats the purpose of having and entry model if you need to upgrade to add a 50mm prime or spend more then the price of the body for the lens. That is the thing that nikon goof with the dxxxx camera.

But they did a very nice job in the next tier camera with the D90.
First, the $100 price can be justified by the articulating screen. Second, there are plenty of entry level lenses that are available. I don't consider primes entry level, as they are less convenient, and require skill to use effectively at the wider apertures (due to the small DOF). I don't know that the average snapshooter is using primes (I own the 50 and can't remember the last time it was out of my bag). Walk around any zoo or park, or tourist attraction anywhere, and take a look and see how many people with DSLR's are shooting with primes. I can almost guarantee it isn't many regardless of system. How many primes have been released compared to zooms over the last several years....also not many, and there is a reason for that...not many people are actually using them. Also, this is not Nikon's entry level camera (that's the D3k)....the D5k sits in between the D3k and D90..a bit better than entry, a bit less than the D90 with features not available on either.

Go through the forums at Nikonians or DP Review and you'll find that not so many people complain about the lack of primes anymore (there are a few). Again, with the quality of the current zooms, and Nikon's excellent flash system, primes just aren't as important to most users. This isn't true across the board, and i know many people out there are still happily using primes. But there are many more that don't.

That's not to say the K-x is a bad camera. It does offer a ton of value for the price, and will serve almost anyone well. I've never really considered Pentax simply because they are not easy to find and try out in a store. Which is also something that needs to be considered.

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Old Feb 22, 2010, 9:01 PM   #62
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Not every one has the same needs and wants as the next person. There are some collage kids I see that love photography, but they know can can not afford the higher price lens or camera. But would like the good aperture of the primes and the manual controls of a dslr. I remember working my way through collage. And I wanted primes for my photography. I had the 28mm 2.8, 50m 1.8 and the 50mm macro.

I am not disagreeing that the d5000 is not a great camera, which it is. But it is not as wallet friendly for someone who does not have that size wallet.

And honestly, I took out all the high end entry and prosumer model before getting the t1i at the time. And unless you print larger the 8x10 or pixel peep at 100% crop the imagine quality are all about the same, it comes down to what your eye finds more pleasing. I shot the K7, D90, 50D, E3, a380, d5000, t1i, e620. And IQ were all pretty close up. Good thing for me I have allot of friends that would lend me their cameras or I could rent them for the shops in NYC.

I have stated multiple time if flash is important the nikon has the best system on the market. The d90 is an excellent camera, I will not denied it.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 9:14 PM   #63
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And I'm not saying the D5k is the right or best choice. I recommend different brands of cameras all the time. My only point, is I just don't think the in body focus motor is much of an issue anymore. You said yourself, different people have different needs...your need was (and still may be) prime lenses. Not everyone wants or needs primes, and I think the current market reflects that. Nikon addressed this a bit with the release of the 35 f1.8, which again, is probably a more useful focal length, especially indoors. Personally, (unless you're not allowed to use it) flash is a better option, as you can keep the ISO lower.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 9:27 PM   #64
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RJ,

I have been messengering the op about cameras, and he seems to be interested in primes. And he seem to have a real interest in the high iso performing camera in the entry level match with a fast prime. There are currently only 2 entry level with 12800iso. The best iq at 12800iso is the pentax. This is where the concern about fast prime and the pentax came form.

Another option would be the canon t1i, if he do not mind a bit more noise at 12800iso match with a fast prime.

So know this the d5000 would not be a good match for where the op is leaning toward right now. The sony a500 that both TCav and JimC would be the next level up meeting his interested right now. And the canon 50D. If he wants to spend more money.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 10:28 PM   #65
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Hi All,

Thanks again for all tips and suggestions!

About the lenses, the goal is a good single lens - something like 10-250.

If then I can find a short wide 18-24, 15-24, like this, with an aperture better than f/2, it may be an option to the wide zoom lens. I think 35mm (52mm eq) a bit too tele for indoor events... Ideally a prime should be 18 or 24mm... (<f/2)

Shops

Thanks for Ritz tip - I'll check there. It seems that all range of Tamron and Sigma lenses are hard to find. B&H is an option, but there is the problem that they do not deliver for hotels when paying with credit card - last time I was in USA I used Amazon instead due this problem...

D90 vs K-X

About low light photos, considering the point that just having ISO 12800 may no be too significant because some hi ISO are unusable due noise, how is the performance of the D90 compared to Pentax?

And about other features, in practice, what would I gain with a D90 comparing to the Pentax K-X (or Nikon D5000)?

Last edited by MarceloRSC; Feb 22, 2010 at 10:42 PM.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 10:36 PM   #66
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Default Nikon D5000

What a hot debate this!

The suggested Nikon D5000 seems to be also a very good option. Is it equivalent level to Pentax K-X or still superior? It has everything - tilt display, live preview, movie recording...

About the lens issue, is there a 18-250mm lens that fits on it?

And, how can I identify lens specific to D5000, as it does not have the motor for AF? Is there some specific designation?

About your debate about the need or not for prime lens, I have two goals - the general fun use, so a wide zoom is the option, and those indoor photos - so low light performance is important, and besides not essential, a prime light lenses may help. The problem is that even for Pentax K-X I did not find any clear (<f/1.8) wide angle lens (28mm eq fixed or small range zoom).


And, is Nikon D5000 good in LOW-LIGHT? (comparing to Pentax K-X, D90...)
(I saw it has lower ISO than other, but how is the quality of this 6400 ISO?)
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 10:54 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoturtle View Post
RJ,

I have been messengering the op about cameras, and he seems to be interested in primes. And he seem to have a real interest in the high iso performing camera in the entry level match with a fast prime. There are currently only 2 entry level with 12800iso. The best iq at 12800iso is the pentax. This is where the concern about fast prime and the pentax came form.
I guess I'm confused, as most of his posts have mentioned 1 lens solutions and kit lenses. I see where you've mentioned primes in many posts and how most of your shooting is with bright primes. Remember, you've said yourself everyone has different needs. The thread started with his question about the 28-300 superzoom. Post #6 by you was the first mention of a prime. His other statements:

Quote:
but now I'll need to look for a 18-200 instead to have the results I was wondering...
Quote:
I need a SINGLE lens starting in 28mm eq and going far tele to use in tourism, landscapes, artistic and familiar use, without the need to carry 2 or to exchange in each scene. This is a not so critical situation. The question is IF I NEED the other one (18-55) to shot the events - will it make such difference?
Quote:
About aperture, checking in B&H I just found 1 option, a f/1.4 lens fixed 30mm (45mm eq), of course very bright, but not so wide angle. I expected to find wider lenses at this f/ range. All others for Pentax are f/2.8 or above. The wider lenses are even darker. And this lens is not cheap - USD 440 - more expensive than the 18-200 lenses... So, considering that the standard 18-55 is f/3.5 just like the 18-200/250, I think that at this moment the configuration will be a single lens kit!
Quote:
About single lens solution, it's the way to "play" and have fun with the camera, as I would do with a Prosumer camera. As Shoturtle pointed, the 18-200/250 has the same aperture (f/3.5) than the usually provided 18-55 - so this lens makes no sense... I'm trying to find a clearer (<f/2) short wide to be the option, but I did not find much options...
Now if you've been messaging him and he's said something completely different, I apologize. But it seems like you're the one that's dead set on him acquiring primes.

Primes are a good way to go if you like to shoot available light, but in reality, there aren't very many cheap prime options, and to get wider ones like the op would want, are typically as expensive as zooms, regardless of system. And for aps-c sensors, there are no cheap wide options, and most are f 2.8. But if you want a fast "normal" prime, there is one for every body...either a 50 (which is really a short tele on a crop body) or a 35 f1.8 available for under $200.

It would probably be best to find a body that feels good, and match it up with one of the superzooms until he figures out where he keeps bumping up on the limits of that lens before purchasing a second lens. All the systems have something that will provide this option.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 10:55 PM   #68
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You will not find a 10-250mm but you will find 18-250mm with the tamron and sigma. But the tamron is a better lens from all reports. The sigma would be a faster AF lens with the HSM motor, but with the OS it is kinda overkill as the pentax body has IS in it. IS, OS, VR, VC=Imagine stabilized.

You will not find any thing at F2 the best you can do is 2.8 in that zoom range. Canon has a 17-55 2.8. 3rd party tamron and sigma has a 17-50mm 2.8 that will fit canon, nikon pentax and sony. Tokina has a 16-60mm 2.8 for canon and nikon.

The D90 is a higher end camera, but imagine quality is about the same, and at the higher iso the edge goes to the pentax. They both have 12mp sensor. At 6400 they are about the same. But the k-x at 12800 is more usable then the canon as it does have less noise.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 11:06 PM   #69
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No one has a 28mm eq. @ 1.8 not even canon who has the most lens.

The D5000 and K-x is is the same class. Their performance are about equal actually. The K-x has better low light ability, so in that regards pentax is better. The d5000 and d90 are the same in the low light department.

Pentax K-x has video, hdr, liveview, and a bigger display. the d5000 has hd, tilt screen.

With nikon lens it can be identifide by AF-s or AF-i. With the sigma and tamron if it has a built in motor in the lens it will work.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarceloRSC View Post
What a hot debate this!

The suggested Nikon D5000 seems to be also a very good option. Is it equivalent level to Pentax K-X or still superior? It has everything - tilt display, live preview, movie recording...

About the lens issue, is there a 18-250mm lens that fits on it?

And, how can I identify lens specific to D5000, as it does not have the motor for AF? Is there some specific designation?

About your debate about the need or not for prime lens, I have two goals - the general fun use, so a wide zoom is the option, and those indoor photos - so low light performance is important, and besides not essential, a prime light lenses may help. The problem is that even for Pentax K-X I did not find any clear (<f/1.8) wide angle lens (28mm eq fixed or small range zoom).


And, is Nikon D5000 good in LOW-LIGHT? (comparing to Pentax K-X, D90...)
(I saw it has lower ISO than other, but how is the quality of this 6400 ISO?)
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Last edited by shoturtle; Feb 23, 2010 at 12:09 AM.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 11:08 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjseeney View Post
I guess I'm confused, as most of his posts have mentioned 1 lens solutions and kit lenses. I see where you've mentioned primes in many posts and how most of your shooting is with bright primes. Remember, you've said yourself everyone has different needs. The thread started with his question about the 28-300 superzoom. Post #6 by you was the first mention of a prime. His other statements:









Now if you've been messaging him and he's said something completely different, I apologize. But it seems like you're the one that's dead set on him acquiring primes.

Primes are a good way to go if you like to shoot available light, but in reality, there aren't very many cheap prime options, and to get wider ones like the op would want, are typically as expensive as zooms, regardless of system. And for aps-c sensors, there are no cheap wide options, and most are f 2.8. But if you want a fast "normal" prime, there is one for every body...either a 50 (which is really a short tele on a crop body) or a 35 f1.8 available for under $200.

It would probably be best to find a body that feels good, and match it up with one of the superzooms until he figures out where he keeps bumping up on the limits of that lens before purchasing a second lens. All the systems have something that will provide this option.
RJ,


There was actually 2 thread started by the OP, that we have been talking about low light and megazoom lenses. It does get a bit confusing. As the answers flip back and forth between the 2. I am not set on anyone getting a prime, but it seems to be something that the OP is interested in.
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Last edited by shoturtle; Feb 23, 2010 at 12:10 AM.
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