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Old Apr 30, 2010, 12:59 AM   #11
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I noticed on the Exif, that you have the Pentax set for vivid color and hard contrast, so that could be making a bit of difference too.
Are you shooting raw, and developing in Aperture, or in jpeg and just using Aperture to downsize?

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Old Apr 30, 2010, 1:01 AM   #12
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Jpeg shooter. I borrowed my brother camera last month. I do not know the setting on it as well as my canon. Aperture just to downsize for this. No editing done.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 1:16 AM   #13
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Maybe I will shoot a set with my canon with the higher contrast and color saturation. Or shoot the pentax at landscape. Hmm. Trying to figure out the best way to get them as close to possible in jpeg settings.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 3:11 AM   #14
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Okay,

After some consultation with some other members. I decide to reshoot the two cameras this weekend at the higher iso's again. Will shoot at factory default settings. The canon at neutral picture style and the pentax at natural style. At 3200, 6400, 12800. NR at factory levels. Hopefully it will get the 2 camera to shoot closer to each other in sitting. This time tripod on all shots, with IS turned off.

If anyone has any more suggest feel free to pop them in. Thanks.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 4:49 AM   #15
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Good comparison, two that aren't put side by side too often!
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 7:47 AM   #16
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Thanks for doing this. What I found most striking was the slightly greenish color of the bridge lights with the Pentax, and purple blooming on the bridge lights with the Canon.

But it seems to be the same old story: Pentax reduces noise at the expense of detail.

I'm looking forward to seeing your tests with the default settings.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 9:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoturtle View Post
I could not figure out why in Aperture mode that the canon chose 10 sec vs 6 sec for the pentax. No EV was apply on any shots.
For one thing, metering systems are not designed to work in lighting that low. For example, the T1i has a 35 zone metering system with a specified working range of EV 1 to EV 20 with an f/1.4 lens; and the Pentax has a 16 zone metering system with a specified working range of EV 1 to EV 21.5 with an f/1.4 lens.

A cityscape scene at night has light levels of around EV 2 (or an exposure time of around 8 seconds at f/5.6 and ISO 200). But, since the metering systems are rated using an f/1.4 lens and the kit lenses are dimmer at their widest apertures (probably f/3.5 for both), that puts the amount of light being seen by the metering sensors so that it's below the specified working range for both of those cameras.

Also, anytime you have a complex scene with a lot of bright and dark areas in a scene, that can throw off metering systems, even if you are within their specified working range, especially with matrix/multi-segment metering, since each manufacturer tends to approach it differently, giving different weighting to things like your focus point. Center Weighted Metering is usually more predictable. But, with that type of lighting, you're still asking for trouble, regardless of metering mode.

IOW, it's best to use manual exposure for those types of shots.

Another difference that's pretty obvious to me is how each camera is handling Auto White Balance with large differences between their output. Because a camera is applying RGB multipliers to the image during the processing to JPEG to correct for lighting temperature; noise, dynamic range and more can be adversely effected, making harder to compare cameras. So, manual white balance (either using the same kelvin temperature with both, or at least a preset like tungsten) is usually a better way to go for comparisons so that RGB multipliers being used by a specific camera's Auto WB don't skew the results.

Also note that because of differences in Bayer filter arrays, sensor design, and more; different sensors will have different response curves in different lighting. So, just because one camera works better in one type of lighting, doesn't mean it will work better in a different type of lighting after correction for lighting temperature (because different RGB multipliers and tone curves may be needed for one camera's raw output versus another camera's raw output during image processing, in order to give you a more usable, color corrected image).
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 11:32 AM   #18
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Jim,

Thanks Jim about the metering info. So do you think I should set the rgb setting to adobe on the pentax?

Hards and I discussed it. I will take a low light shot of a sign next that is lite or something along those lines at factory settings. Changing up the lighting a bit and see how it works out. But the 35 zone of metering seems to work a bit to the canon's side in this particular situation. I will shoot in shoot in Aperture mode first to see if the settings match up. If they do not, I will shoot in Manual.

But next to the difference so far, both are actually quite capable in this extreme low light condition. Yes the canon had a bit easier time with the AF. But I was expected.

Thanks once again.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 11:43 AM   #19
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So do you think I should set the rgb setting to adobe on the pentax?
No. That's a color space difference, and you'll need to convert to sRGB anyway unless someone is using a Color Managed image viewer able to take advantage of tagged images without *negatively* impacting colors, and even then (if you're using an image viewer capable of displaying images tagged with a specific color profile), you'd need a wide gamut monitor to see the benefits of Adobe RGB, and most users have TN panel LCDs that don't even support the entire sRGB color space, much less the Adobe RGB color space.

You'd just cause problems trying to use Adobe RGB for images designed for web viewing. Using Adobe RGB for photos designed for web viewing is almost always a *very* bad idea.

The color space being used has nothing to do with the primary issues impacting how different cameras react in different lighting.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 11:52 AM   #20
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Yeah,

Hards suggested the factory defaults. I will have go though the pentax manual a bit. If I remember correctly you can change the picture style 5 ways. Canon neutral is set at 0,0,0,0. But the pentax has 5 setting set to +-4 from 0. And not sure if I should use all settings at 0 or the -4.

I know I want to turn D-range complete off now. I will set noise reduction to the default of standard on both camera. Or do you think I should try to set it to off if I can find out how to do it on the pentax?

Thanks again.
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