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Old Dec 9, 2003, 2:45 PM   #1
Hub
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Default Canon G5 vs. Canon S50 vs. Sony V1

I do not haave any digital photo experience. However, I have been using a Canon A1 SLR for about 20 years for all of my photo needs. I have several lenses for it.
I am having a hard time deciding which of the cameras to get mentioned in the subject line.
I have one store person tell me how much better the Sony V1 is over the Canon G5. Another said that my best choice is the Canon S50.
My need are general all around photography including action sports. I have even considered the Canon Digital Rebel kit but find it a little expensive for the limited photography that I now do.
After all of that (sorry), does anyone have a recommendation for which of the 3 would be my best choice?
Thank you in advance! I love this forum and Steve's board! It is a terrific site!
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 2:53 PM   #2
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The Sony will have less autofocus/shutter lag, as well as lower noise (smiliar to film grain) and chromatic aberrations (purple fringing), compared to the Canon S50 or G5.

It also tests better on resolution charts.

If you like the Canon models, I'd look at the G3 or S45 (4 Megapixel Models) instead. Canon decided to drop a new 5MP sensor into the S50 and G5, without upgrading the lens design.

As a result, many users consider the older models to be much better.

But, the V1 is going to be faster from an autofocus and shutter lag perspective compared to any of these models, and will be able to resolve more detail, too.

However, you need to be more specific on what kind of action sports you are talking about, and whether you mean indoor sports, outdoor daytime sports, nighttime sports, etc.

You'll probably want a much different camera for lower light sports, because of the noise levels at higher ISO speeds from most non-Digital SLR camera models.
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 4:18 PM   #3
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Jim,
Thank you for this very helpful information. I really appreciate it! I especially like what you told me in this remark:

>If you like the Canon models, I'd look at the G3 or S45 (4 Megapixel Models) instead. Canon decided to drop a new 5MP sensor into the S50 and G5, without upgrading the lens design.<

I believe that I will go with the V10. I would rather not go to the 4.0 MP. I guess that I am just a 'nothing but the finest' at heart.

Hub
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 8:03 PM   #4
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You may want to discuss this some more. If you're after low light sports, you may not like the results.

You'll want a camera with a faster lens (able to gather more light). Focal Range will also come into play.

The G3 will have a faster lens. It's rated at F2.0/F3.0, and will gather about twice as much light as the Sony's lens (allowing double the shutter speeds for the same ISO speed).

There is more to picking a camera than shutter lag.

So, you may want to answer my original question about what type of action sports you are looking to photograph first, to make sure that the camera you choose will be suitable.

About the best camera non-DSLR camera for indoor sports (from a lens speed perspective) is the Sony DSC-F717. It's lens is rated at F2.0 at wide angle, only stopping down to F2.4 at full zoom.

Although, you may still find a high percentage of photos unusable due to motion blur and/or noise at higher ISO speeds --- which will also limit the print sizes you can use.

A digital SLR is preferred for these conditions.
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 10:43 PM   #5
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Excuse me to barge in your thread hub, i have questions that relates and i thought it's better to keep it in same thread for other views who seek similar reference.

i am myself is considering to get a canon g5 or fujifilm s7000 very soon.
1. does it worth paying extra for g5, compared to g3?
2. does anyone familiar with s7000 compared to g5 or v1?
3. do you have any recomendation for digi cams around $500-$600 with 5 megapixel?

thanks,

XoMartel
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 11:10 PM   #6
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Jim,
The sports that I will be shooting will be children from indoor basketball on a well lit court to little league baseball outdoors of course. You must remember that I am very 'picky' about my pictures. That is why I think that I should stick to 5MP versus 4MP. What do you think?
I photographed my kids, they are grown now, with my Canon A1 many times using shutter priority or aperture priority many of them being at f/22 or f/16 and the camera picking the shutter speed. Some were also just the opposite but not many as I recall. Oops! I got that backwards! I shot most at high shutter speed 1/1000 to stop their action in soccor, baseball, etc.
I spent all evening at camera stores and I just don't like the way the Sony V1 fits my hand. Most of the time I was putting my finger over the manual view finder and putting my other hand's finger over the flash.
I looked for G3's but no one has them because of the G5 being out, I presume.
I want you to know that I do appreciate your help with this!
Hub
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 11:30 PM   #7
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For indoor sports, I would not consider anything without a very fast lens (i.e., F2.0), and a larger sensor.

I'd personally want something like the Sony DSC-F717 as a minimum camera for indoor sports (F2.0/F2.4 lens) -- with the understanding that I would have a high percentage of borderline photos, with limited print sizes.

In order to get fast enough shutter speeds to prevent motion blur, you'll need to shoot at pretty wide apertures, and higher ISO speeds.

Even some Sony DSC-F717 users have a hard time getting good action photos of indoor sports - either because of too much noise trying to shoot at ISO 800, or motion blur trying to shoot at ISO 400.

You know what grain looks like in higher ASA film? Picture it as being much worse at higher ISO speeds in a Digital Camera.

The best solution for indoor sports is actually a Digital SLR (like the Canon EOS-10D). These can shoot at much higher ISO speeds with low noise.

The CCD Sensor in a Digital Camera is VERY tiny. For example: the Canon G5 uses a 1/1.8" CCD sensor (.556"). Because the photodiodes for 5 Million Pixels are packed into such a small area, noise tends to be high as ISO speeds are increased.

Basically, to allow faster shutter speeds, you must increase ISO speed (like you would buy higher ASA film for a 35mm camera). This increases the signal from the CCD Sensor. But, it also amplifies noise, which can destroy detail.

So, to keep noise levels lower, you want a camera with a faster lens, and a larger sensor. The Sensors used in Digital SLR's are dramatically larger than the sensors used in a camera like the G5.

Noise is a bit better in a camera like the G3, because the sensor is not as dense (same size sensor with larger photodiodes, which have better noise characteristics).

The DSC-F717 uses a larger 2/3" Sensor, and most Digital SLR models use MUCH larger APS size sensors.

So, to repeat, the minimum camera I would attempt to use for indoor sports would be a Sony DSC-F717. It's lens is fast enough, with a larger sensor (compared to the G5), so that you may be able to live the noise levels (as long as you don't need very large prints).

But, a much better solution would be something along the lines of a Canon EOS-10D, using a fast (i.e. F2.0) prime lens.

This is a much more expensive solution though.

I'm only trying to set your expecations. Most users find most digital cameras to be virtually unusable for indoor sports.
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 11:33 PM   #8
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P.S.

I'd strongly advise buying a Digital Camera from a vendor with a no restocking fee policy, if you're going to try and use it for indoor sports. So, if you don't like the results, you can return it for a refund.
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Old Dec 9, 2003, 11:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XoMartel
Excuse me to barge in your thread hub, i have questions that relates and i thought it's better to keep it in same thread for other views who seek similar reference.

i am myself is considering to get a canon g5 or fujifilm s7000 very soon.
1. does it worth paying extra for g5, compared to g3?
2. does anyone familiar with s7000 compared to g5 or v1?
3. do you have any recomendation for digi cams around $500-$600 with 5 megapixel?

thanks,

XoMartel
What do you want to use a camera for? The Fuji has a longer zoom, and I like it's ergonomics and control layout better. However, it has been criticized for higher noise than it's competition (but it may not be noticeable a most print sizes -- as long as your photos are in good light). Steve noted the noise in it's review conclusion section here (you'll see a Reviews menu choice on the site's main menu at http://www.steves-digicams.com

The G5 noise levels are not quite as high, but it's Chromatic Aberrations are higher at wider apertures than most users like (purple fringing in high contrast areas of a photo).

There are many cameras. It all depends on what conditions you want to use one in.

I'd read through the reviews here, to get a better idea of the features available, and let forum users know how you'll want to use a camera (shooting conditons -- indoors, outdoors).
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Old Dec 10, 2003, 1:10 AM   #10
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JimC, Thanks for the reply.

i don't have specific purpose for my digi camera yet. my requirements are
1. longevity and open for expansion (extra lens)
2. take very very good picture (since i'm spending at least $500 for it)
3. various features (i am quick learner) but also good/easy enough for point and shoot (when i ask other people to take picture of me) - especially when i try to explain to them how to hold the button for half second to let the camera focus. (i'd like to minimize or reduce the hassle)
4. this is my first and i wanted to be the last camera for few years.
5. sturdyness i guess come to mind and bulkiness. (that's why i am looking for something in between compact and very bulky cameras - in hope that i get most benefit of bukly camera <slr's> and the lightness of compact camera) ... which made me think about g5, coolpix5400, sony v1, finepix s7000 and other similar level

Thank you,

XoMartel
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