Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jul 20, 2010, 3:25 PM   #11
Super Moderator
 
peripatetic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,599
Default

Unfortunately the Apple iMac monitors are only just barely acceptable, and for serious work, not even that.

Apple has decided that the sales to be made to graphics professionals are small potatoes compared to making monitors that look great to the general public. So the new high-gloss monitors are terrible for color accuracy.

Another place to get a reasonable idea of the pecking-order for monitors is this UK site:

http://shop.colourconfidence.com/sec...d23195aa8f1109

They have a handy star rating system, as well as giving a fairly good idea of comparative pricing. I would suggest looking on their site for a few monitors to shortlist and then try some US websites to see what prices you can get.

Hmm, they seem to have the option to pay in $ so maybe they ship to the US. They have a special offer on NEC Spectraview Refernce 26" monitors at the moment, around $1400. That is one heck of a monitor for that price!
__________________
My gallery
My X100 blog

Last edited by peripatetic; Jul 20, 2010 at 3:32 PM.
peripatetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2010, 5:06 PM   #12
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

Thanks P. Will check out that site. I've got time.

Regarding the color accuracy of Apple monitors (e.g. the iMacs) I'm actually not that surprised. Though, I was hoping they would be "decent" as their free-standing monitors are Samsungs. Or were. So I was told. Though, I don't know how Samsungs stack up to be honest. Just assumed Apple wouldn't use utter trash brand/models to put their Apple label on.

Apple computers used to be the computer of choice for graphic design houses. Not sure if they still are. Times change I guess.

So, if I want to stick with Apple products and the Mac OS X then I guess I'll have to shell out the bucks for a Mac Pro desktop and maybe a Dell or NEC monitor. Looking at either the 27" or 30" screens. Though the NEC Spectra series are almost double the cost of a Dell of comparable size/specs (though Dell does have a 27" vs NEC's 26"). And Dells have tested well (Uxx11 series).

What monitor and photo printer do you have P? And were they callibrated using a colorimeter?

Last edited by BDD; Jul 20, 2010 at 5:32 PM.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2010, 10:09 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
VTphotog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Extreme Northeastern Vermont, USA
Posts: 4,234
Default

Yes, a wider color gamut refers to a color space such as Adobe RGB, ProPhoto RGB, or several others. Some RAW converters can store to one of these color spaces.
If one has a monitor which can display the wider gamut, and a printer which can reproduce it, and has saved it in a format which doesn't truncate it, then there is a possibility of getting improved prints.
In most cases, matching printer output to the monitor is doing it backwards. A print is viewed with reflected light, so the brightness and color of the print depend on the quality of the light, as well as the paper. Much easier to adjust the monitor to the print, if you wish to match them.

brian
VTphotog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2010, 7:39 AM   #14
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

Thanks VT. I was aware of that. I just wasn't sure what YOU meant exactly.

The X-rite Colormunki Photo prints out a predetermined sheet (2 groups) of 50 color samples followed by another sheet of 50 samples based on the results from testing the first sheet. "So the brightness and color of print" in this case is not dependent on the color of the light or paper. And the Colormunki is rolled over (size of each color sample is roughly the same size as the rectangular scanner in the colorimeter) these little sample "rectangles" on the sheet so no light from the room should not affect the sampling.

Besides, when profiling a printer would you not be reading the printed color samples? Difference being the design of the colorimeter. How much or little ambient light is affecting the colorimeter's ability to accurately read the samples. I suppose the Spyder 3 design would make their colorimeter more open to light from the room affecting the quality of the read.

How would you "match the monitor to the printer"? Which manufacturer of colorimeter hardware/software takes this approach? Though I think the Colormunki matches the printer to the monitor using the same color samples (if not a smaller number of samples that are projected onto the monitor by the software). So whether they say "match the printer to the monitor" or "match the monitor to the printer" wouldn't make a difference in their case.

Plus, a lot of industry "pros" are using the Colormunki Photo. So their approach must be fairly sound no?

I'm assuming you calibrate your monitor and printer VT? What colorimeter/software do you use? And which monitor and printer do you own?

Last edited by BDD; Jul 21, 2010 at 8:24 AM.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2010, 11:31 AM   #15
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
Unfortunately the Apple iMac monitors are only just barely acceptable, and for serious work, not even that.

Apple has decided that the sales to be made to graphics professionals are small potatoes compared to making monitors that look great to the general public. So the new high-gloss monitors are terrible for color accuracy.
Do you have any links to in-depth reviews on the new 27" iMac screen quality? I've been Googling and none of the reviews go into any detail about the color accuracy. All they mention is that it's "bright" and has good contrast.

And no one mentions it's ability to do Adobe RGB or sRGB at whatever the percentage. Though, I assume it's because this is not a "wide gamut" monitor (though I was hoping it is).

I'm looking at the iMac because I had already bought copies of CS4 and Lightroom (Mac versions). Was using them on my MacBook Pro till I began filling my HD. So I removed those 2 programs. So, ridiculously enough, because I spent almost $1000.00 on Adobe software (and I am a fan of the Mac OS X) I'm sort of locked into buying an Apple desktop. Rather save myself 2k by NOT buying a Mac Pro and a Dell 27" Uxx11 monitor. I could be saving myself another grand buying a Dell Studio desktop.

Last edited by BDD; Jul 21, 2010 at 11:57 AM.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2010, 11:48 AM   #16
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

If you google for imac 27" color gamut, you'll find lots of hits discussing it. It looks like it's not a wide gamut display.

Here's one forum thread discussing it, and you can see where someone shows a gamut profile in it, too.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...howtopic=41317

You'll also see it discussed in this review of the Dell U2711 (since it sounds like you're looking at those models):

"...the iMac 27 offers a 72% color gamut while the U2711 has a 102% color gamut (based on the CIE 1931 standard)."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2922

JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2010, 11:59 AM   #17
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

Thanks JimC. I Googled "27-inch iMac color accuracy". No wonder.

Sort of looks like I'm going to be buying a Mac Pro and a good standalone monitor like the 27" Dell U2711.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2010, 12:00 PM   #18
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Quote:
...spent almost $1000.00 on Adobe software I'm sort of locked into buying an Apple desktop.
If you decide to change, I'd talk to Adobe. I've seen users changing operating systems report that Adobe was able to handle that for them before.

Also note that CS4 has both 32 bit and 64 bit versions available for 64 bit Windows 7; whereas the OS X version of CS4 is 32 bit only (restricting the amount of memory it can use). If you go CS5, you can get 64 bit for OS X or Windows 7, allowing it to take advantage of more memory with either operating system.

Quote:
I could be saving myself another grand buying a Dell Studio desktop.
You'd probably want to go with the XPS 9000 (a.k.a., XPS 435) in a Dell to get a Core i7 CPU and better case design.

For best performance with CS4, a Core i7 CPU is your best bet. Here are some CPU charts (scroll down past the adverts and you'll see them):

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2...CS-4,1387.html

If you get into video editing later using an application that can take advantage of more threads (and as time passes, more applications should), the difference with a Core i7 type CPU will be much greater. See some CS4 Premiere benchmarks here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2...-CS4,1404.html
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2010, 12:24 PM   #19
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
You'd probably want to go with the XPS 9000 (a.k.a., XPS 435) in a Dell to get a Core i7 CPU and better case design.
See more about that system here (features/specs):

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/desktop-studio-xps-435?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=corp&~lt=popup

BTW, you can get a brand new one for $1000 with free shipping after coupon codes (and they have those all the time) with a Core i7 920, 6GB of DDR3, DVD Writer/Blu-Ray player, 2 year warranty and more; and you could add to it later with a USB 3.0 card, etc.

Just go here and select the XPS 9000 on the right and customize it as desired (and I'd switch to list view to make that easier) and enter the codes at checkout (note the code at the top of the page before you select the XPS 9000).

http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/affil...811&lid=981910

It's $1249.99 to start with. So, after a coupon code for 20% off, that should bring your cost down to $1000.

Here's a direct link to configure one:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...coupon-laptops

Here's that code for 20% off you can enter at checkout (and you'll see it on the page in my first link, too):

5TK?LC9VJ5F$33

Here's one for free shipping on it:

?8CN$RJ?W5TQ0C

I found those here (the second one down showing XPS 9100 is a typo, as they don't make an XPS 9100 and you'll see the XPS 9000 on the page it brings you to):

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/dellcoupon_savings?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~tab=2

Then, use any monitor you want to buy with it (and it doesn't need to be a Dell either).

It's not as nice as a Mac Pro as far as the case, psu, expandability, etc. But, then again, the Dell XPS 9000 with a Core i7 920 is less than than half the cost and should benchmark just as fast as a single CPU Mac Pro using a 2.66ghz XEON (they're both Nehalem architecture and those two CPUs should benchmark the same from tests I've seen). Of course, you get OS X with the Mac (and you could also run Win 7 on it if you buy it). You'll have to decide if that's worth more than twice as much money to you. ;-)

If you wanted a better PC than the Dell (case, PSU, etc.), you could put together a much faster system at far less cost than a Mac Pro. I'd look at custom builders like http://www.cyberpowerpc.com
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 21, 2010, 12:24 PM   #20
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Oops.. you're in Canada, so those prices wouldn't apply. I don't keep up with prices there. So, you'd need to dig around.
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:18 PM.