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Old Jul 23, 2010, 1:59 PM   #31
BDD
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Most likely than not I'll go with a Dell system. Mainly for cost reasons (e.g. saving 2k). Knowing CS4 and CS5 is faster on the Windows platform is a plus. Though, really, unless I could do an a/b test I don't think it would matter that much. Even if the PC version is twice as fast in "test A".

Will still try to sell my copy of CS4 (Mac) though (doubt I can swap a copy of CS5 Upgrade (mac) for the full version of CS5 (Win)). I thought I would want to use it with LR. Almost never touched it. So even if I do get a good price for my copy of CS4 I don't know if I'll buy CS5. I don't think I can justify it at this point or in the near future.

Or, if I can't sell my copy of CS4 (Mac) I can install it on my MacBook Pro laptop (after having calibrated the screen with Colormunki). Plug it into my future Dell U2711 or NEC monitor (PA271W) if I really need to use CS4. So it wouldn't be a total loss.

Rather buy plug-ins like Nik Software's Color Efex 3.

Also, does any one know why the NEC Spectra or PA series monitors are almost twice as expensive as the Dell (e.g. Dell U2711)? Or are their prices just that inflated?

Last edited by BDD; Jul 26, 2010 at 10:33 AM.
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 4:05 PM   #32
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My guess is that if you upgraded both to the latest OS X versions, they'd do a cross platform swap for you (perhaps at a nominal fee if you wanted a boxed version, versus just downloading the latest version via an internet connection). That's just a guess, but I've seen users report cross platform swaps before.

I'd ask them about updating both Lightroom and Photoshop to the current versions to to find out if they'd do a cross platform swap for both of them or not, if you upgrade them to the current version.
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 5:56 PM   #33
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LR is a "Mac/Win" version. Only have to worry about CS4 (Mac only). And the more I think about it I don't know if it's worth the effort to upgrade CS4 to CS5 (paying the "upgrade" price of $215.00 CAD) to hopefully do a cross-platform swap to the "full" version of CS5 (which will likely be more than $215.00). It might just be worth it to buy a new full version of CS5 (Windows...$750 CAD). Though, I used to use LR but almost never CS4. So it seems my best bet would be easier to sell CS4 to a friend of a friend OR just load CS4 onto my MBP laptop after offloading a few thousand images. Then use CS4 (Mac) if there's something I can't do in LR alone.

Will see what Adobe says. But I'm still looking at going for a Windows workstation now (Dell) over a Mac OS. Or buy an Apple Mac Mini if I want to go cheap or buy one in addition to the Dell XPS 9000 desktop.

On the other hand, upgrading to CS5 would run me around $200.00, add shipping, then pay a "nominal" fee for the full version of CS5?? Might as well buy a full version of CS5 (Win) at that rate. So maybe I'll just keep my copy of CS4 (if I don't sell it). As I said I only used to use LR and almost never CS4.

UPDATE (Monday July 26th, 2010):

Just got an email reply from Adobe. Turns out I can do both:

There are two (2) options that you can do:
1.) You can do that idea of yours, Buy a CS5 Upgrade from your CS4 and
then do Cross Platform Swap.
>>>> you pay the upgrade price plus shipping and tax,
>>>> then you pay the shipping plus tax for the Cross Platform Swap.
2.) You can go directly to Cross Platfrom Upgrade. From your CS4 Mac to
CS5 Windows
>>> you pay only the upgrade price plus shipping and tax.


I like option #2 better. Back to buying a Dell XPS 9000 desktop & Dell U2711 27" monitor (or maaaaybe NEC PA271W 27" Multisync for 2x more...hmmm).

Last edited by BDD; Jul 26, 2010 at 5:29 PM.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 11:29 AM   #34
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Apple just debuted 6-core chips for their Mac Pro desktop computers. Wonder if they read this thread and the Anandtech reports of how a 4GB RAM i7 PCs were outperforming the Mac Pros so badly running CS4 (or was it CS5?). So does this mean the Mac Pro has one-upped the Windows PCs? I'm sure this will be tested soon by Anandtech. But this also makes Mac Pros that much more expensive. To upgrade a Quad-core to a 6-core it costs $1300 CAD!!

So for a system I'd want it would run me almost 5k Not including a wide gamut monitor. And then a good photo printer. Cha-CHING$$$$!!
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 11:38 AM   #35
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They've been out for a while in non- Apple Systems. ;-)

You can get an equivalent CPU for a *lot* less in a Windows PC.

For example, start with something like this one with an Intel Core i7 980x Extreme (6 physical cores + 6 virtual cores with HT), at well under $2K with a case that has more drive slots than a Mac Pro, 6GB of DDR3, Windows 7 Pro, and tweak as desired (choose a better case, more memory, different video, etc. to suit your needs).

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1CLJ39

As a general rule of thumb, the more powerful the Apple system, the more you can save by going with a non Apple Alternative, especially once you get into dual CPU systems (see some of the configurators at vendors like http://www.avadirect.com if that's of interest, as some of their workstations can be configured with dual XEONs, including the latest 6 core models).

Personally, the *only* reason I'd buy an Apple desktop would be if I wanted to use OS X, as their hardware cost gets pretty pricey compared to some of the alternatives, especially when you get into the Mac Pro offerings (as they cost a *lot* more for equivalent performance compared to other choices you can find).
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 12:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD View Post
So for a system I'd want it would run me almost 5k Not including a wide gamut monitor. And then a good photo printer. Cha-CHING$$$$!!
If you *really* want to spend that much money, I'd look at this box. It should "run circles" around any Mac Pro offerings selling for a lot more. It's equipped with dual SSDs in a RAID 0 config, dual 1TB SATA III Drives in RAID 0 config, *dual* Nvidia GTX 480 video cards with liquid cooling (the video cards alone are worth around $500 each), a nice case with more drive slots than Apple has available, 12GB of 1600MHZ DDR3 (faster memory than Apple offers), a 6 Core Intel Core i7 980x Extreme with 30% overclocking (and Apple doesn't do overclocking), a Blu Ray writer (not even available from Apple), USB 3.0 (not even available from Apple), liquid cooling and more.

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Black_Mamba/

But, personally, I'd consider that type of system to be overkill, unless you just want bragging rights and want the fastest system you can find for gaming purposes.

I'd stick to the under $2K systems instead. ;-)
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 2:27 PM   #37
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Also, unfortunately Mac OSX has well and truly broken it's color management since 10.4 - for the company that used to own color accuracy, this is a shocking state of affairs!!!

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Old Aug 9, 2010, 5:04 PM   #38
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Will check cyberpowerpc.com. Hope they deliver to Canada.

I wasn't going to spend 5k on a computer anyways. I was looking at $2500 CAD Dell Studio XPS computers. The 9000 series. I was simply noting that Apple today debut the optional 6-core chip. Or I think it's today.

I do like the Mac OS X and associated software though. The most I was willing to spend was 3k CAD on a 27" iMac. But I found out they had "limited gamut" monitors so I scrapped that idea. Went back to looking at Win 7 based computers like the Dells.

And again...I won't be buying till the end of this year or early next. As I will be putting my home on the market "soon". Don't really need a desktop PC yet. And don't need something else to unpack then pack again for the move.

Plus, I could always go to some local mom/pop computer shop that's been around a while and have one custom made. Talk to them in-person. And should there be problems just take in the machine. Much easier actually than ordering a Dell or "cyberpowerpc". Actually I think we have a local Dell repair center. So not a big deal if I go back to Dell.

Thanks for the ideas JimC.

Last edited by BDD; Aug 9, 2010 at 5:12 PM.
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 7:09 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
Also, unfortunately Mac OSX has well and truly broken it's color management since 10.4 - for the company that used to own color accuracy, this is a shocking state of affairs!!!

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...g-to-hell.html
That article reminds me of Firefox issues with color management. Firefox 3.0.x supported both version 2 and version 4 ICC profiles (although color management was disabled by default, you could tweak settings to turn it on).

But, Firefox 3.5.x and 3.6.x versions (at least so far) only support version 2 ICC profiles. Apparently, they changed the libraries they're using for color management in newer versions, breaking compatibiity with version 4 profiles.

That sounds like what Apple might have done with Snow Leopard, as that artice implies version 4 profiles no longer work (the printer profiles anyway).
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Old Aug 9, 2010, 10:16 PM   #40
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Can you guys go over this business of v.2 or v4 support and Mac OS X? I assumed you just bought a colorimeter (e.g. Colormunki Photo). Calibrate the monitor and printer. And you were set.

I had bought the Snow Leopard upgrade disc but had problems after installing it over Leopard (10.5). So I removed it. Also, as I said, I'm not planning on buying an iMac because of the monitor's "limited gamut". Nor will I buy a Mac Pro due to the cost.

Still I'd like to get an understanding on what you and the article are talking about. With "versions" and OS support.

Thanks.

Last edited by BDD; Aug 9, 2010 at 10:19 PM.
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