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Old Aug 14, 2010, 2:38 AM   #1
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Default Thoughts on EVIL Cameras

Which Evil's gaining traction more and more, and pretty much all brands will most likely have a full line by next year. What do you all think the impact will be.

With the days things seems to be going, the biggest impact they will have is on the sales of high end bridge cameras. Have dslr IQ in a much smaller package, and set up for easier uses, with all the controls a point and shooter is uses too.

This is clearly illustrated with the nex3 and nex5. It seems targeted directly after that market, with it's gui control.

But it seems the samsung offering and the m4/3 offering from olympus and panasonic does target this audience also, but with their added control buttons and feature it will appeal more to more avid photographers.

So will we be seeing less in the low end entry dslr markets, as these evils can match pertty much everything they can with the exception of action.

They seem posed to take a big bite out of the bridge and entry dslr market.

These things just are very well design and preforms great. And they are moving into the mainstream more and more, and the bridge camera will move more into the niche. And perhaps the low end entry dslr also.

So what are all your thoughts on this with the boom of the EVIL's over the last 6 months?
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 6:26 AM   #2
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There probably is a market for these cameras, I dont think they will affect sales of the DSLR much. The SLR has been around over 50 years now and to be honest it has changed little, it just been improved on over the years.
So we have a new kid on the block and only time will tell how successful it will be. I am amazed in this day of modern electronics that we have not come up with idea before. As far as we can tell Canon and Nikon do not have a device to compete with, there are rumors though.
Will we see a break in the market Canon and Nikon DSLR and the rest doing the EVIL, micro 4/3. Again time will tell.
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 7:07 AM   #3
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I think it was a smart move for Olympus and 4/3. They get to capitalize on an advantage they already had. I think it was a mistake for Sony. They started from scratch, abandoning all the advantages they had with the A-Mount.
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 7:16 AM   #4
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I have both an E-3 and the EPL1 and the more I use the EPL1, the more I love my E-3.

Most of the short commings of my little EVIL center on focus. It has more to do with being able to place the focal point EXACTLY where I want it. With the DSLR, if I want it where the eye meets the nose, I can do that. then I can place it in the iris and re-focus. Its done. Lots of luck trying that with my EPL1.

Try to pick a bird out of a bush without the focus catching a branch. Piece of cake with the DSLR, tough duty with a focus area on a point and shoot. When the point and shoot has a larger sensor and the ability to shoot faster lenses, or longer lenses, the focus point becomes more critical because the depth of field becomes narrower. That is what frustrates me with the EPL1 the most. Its an area that lowers the utility of the camera well below the current DSLR offerings. I haven't used any other EVIL cameras, so I cannot say the comments above are universal.

Now, why don't I just sell the damned thing and move on? Well, there are things it does quite well and quite conviently.

My EPL kit consists of the EPL-1, a wonderful Panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens, the 40-150 4/3 kit lens, and one of my macro lenses, either the 35 of the 50 f2, as well as the adapter to mount the 4/3 lenses to the micro camera. The whole kit fits into a small camera bag and can go on the longest hike without causing any discomfort or inconvienence.

The EPL does things like street and landscape shots like a champ. Its not my thing, but snaps at the party would be easy with the Panny 20 f1.7 and ISO 1600, and has a little popup flash too. To be honest, I haven't tried out firing flashes remotely with the EPL yet, but the same system does well with the E-3 and opens up a new world of possibilities for a highly portable, multi flash kit going literally anywhere.

Another use for my EPL is playing second fiddle to my E-3. I can sit comfortably with the E-3/300mm/2x converter on a tripod waiting for wildlife to show up to get their pic taken, while the EPL/40-150 sits on my lap. The little camera can take snaps without even moving it from my lap. Just lower the eyeballs to the LCD, focus and shoot. The snake, frog, toad, chipmunk get theit pic taken without the whole forest knowing I'm there. If the main guest arrives, the big gun on the turret is still ready, and if it gets too close for the 600mm, the EPL is ready to keep shooting.

I'll sum up what I perfer.

Wildlife--- DSLR
Macro--- DSLR
Action/Sports---- DSLR!!!
On the street--- EVIL
Indoor Snaps--- EVIL
Landscapes--- DSLR if its with me, but often its not so EVIL wins.
Vacation cam--- EVIL!!!

If you force me to choose one and only one, I'll choose the DSLR all the way. It can do it all and do it all well. Its not even a close call in my book. Problem is, this is a hobby for me. If it becomes a hassle, I make myself leave the camera home. Why be miserable? Now, throw one small, super light weight bag over the shoulder and it has the lenses to do most anything I'd want. It might not even come out of the bag that day, but its ready any time. That's the main beauty of the EVIL kit. It can always be there and doesn't take any real effort to take it along.
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 7:27 AM   #5
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The Electronic Viewfinder (EVF) and LCD display have a long way to go before they begin to replace the Optical Viewfinder (OVF) in DSLRs. An EVF is required on an EVIL camera to permit holding the camera properly braced against one's face. Holding an EVIL camera at arms length to be able to use the LCD to compose isn't going to be useful with one of the larger lenses.
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 12:19 PM   #6
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Ditto to above. In addition, the lenses have to get smaller in relation to the camera. Some of those small cameras with those big zoom lenses seem pretty silly.
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 1:47 PM   #7
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Oly has the best evf on the market, and it works great. I use it all the time, and it gets ride of all the problem with shooting with an lcd.

I like using it to shoot macro allot, as it can tilt 90 degrees. So with my little 35mm macro lens, I can keep myself out of the direction of the light an not block the light. I have to pull out my 90 degree ovf extender to do the same with my dslr. It also works great when I set my tripod as a grounder, it make viewing the subject easier.

But I have to admit, I can see the evil start to challenged the low end entry like the sony A2xx, A3xx, canon Xs, and nikon D3000 on the dslr front.
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 1:56 PM   #8
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In my view, the Sony NEX-3/5 cameras don’t really fit in the EVIL category (“Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens” for those not familiar with the acronym) since they don’t have a built-in electronic viewfinder. There is an optional VF that can be attached but it can’t be attached if the supplied external flash is installed which is necessary since there isn’t a built-in flash. That means that the optional VF can never be used when taking flash pictures. This whole setup really doesn’t appeal to me.

The EP-1 and GF1 also don't have built-in electronic VFs.

Some of the m4/3 cameras are true EVIL cams since they have built-in electronic VFs. The appeal of the m4/3 for me is that it gives better low-light quality than smaller sensor cameras, and it allows using smaller lenses because its sensor is smaller than the APS-C size sensor. This allows smaller 10x zoom lenses which then results in not having to change lenses. I’m not into photography enough to carry a second lens and changing lenses in the field, not to mention the chance of dust getting into the camera while doing that.

For better picture quality, an EVIL camera with a APS-C size sensor and a 10x zoom lens would be better (for those who won’t change lenses while shooting) but the package would be larger and heavier so one would need to weigh whether the IQ difference and camera speed is worth it for the type of shooting one does. This might be better for those seeking the best performance from their camera. It all depends on the shooter’s needs.

Last edited by skylark; Aug 14, 2010 at 10:21 PM.
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Old Aug 14, 2010, 8:52 PM   #9
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Maybe we should make a further distinction, and call some of them ILPS cameras (for Interchangeable Lens Point&Shoot). They seem more oriented to those who are used to holding their camera at arms length to take a picture.

My biggest disappointment with the EVIL cameras is they have not enclosed the sensor, which could easily be done, since the mirror box has been eliminated. This would eliminate the dust problems, permanently, and allow use of standard lenses without adapters. Should work very well to create an environmentally sealed camera.
With a really good EVF and decent autofocus, it would be something I would seriously consider.

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Old Aug 14, 2010, 9:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTphotog View Post
Maybe we should make a further distinction, and call some of them ILPS cameras (for Interchangeable Lens Point&Shoot). They seem more oriented to those who are used to holding their camera at arms length to take a picture.

My biggest disappointment with the EVIL cameras is they have not enclosed the sensor, which could easily be done, since the mirror box has been eliminated. This would eliminate the dust problems, permanently, and allow use of standard lenses without adapters. Should work very well to create an environmentally sealed camera.
With a really good EVF and decent autofocus, it would be something I would seriously consider.

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The strength of the concept is what can be done, design wise, with new lenses. The much shorter registration distance allows bright, shorter focal length lenses. I find it unfortunate that many manufacturers are stuck with dim zooms. Here is an example in the form of the Panasonic 20mm f1.7.



Look at Leica M lenses to see what should be possible. Panasonic is off to a nice start with nice lenses, Oly is stck on some rather boreing consumer zooms. Anyway, it takes new lenses to realize the benifits of the format. Adapters just hold down the financial pain by allowing the use of existing lenses.

As to the dust thing, I've run 4/3 stuff for years and have yet to notice any dust. For them, it it ain't broke...
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