Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Nov 15, 2010, 3:04 AM   #91
Senior Member
 
shoturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Frankfurt AM
Posts: 11,348
Default

macs are easy to work with, allot less pick then windows. I still have to use windows at work, but my personal is going to be mac!!!!!!!!
__________________
Super Frequent Flyer, no joke. Ex Patriot and loving it.
Canon Eos 60D, T1i/500D, Eos1, Eos 630, Olympus EPL-1, and a part time Pentax K-X shooter.
shoturtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 4:59 AM   #92
Senior Member
 
rjseeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Taylor Mill, Kentucky
Posts: 2,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bynx View Post
I dont think it makes you obtuse either RJ. But it does make you very very lucky.
Maybe so. I'm not sure that using hundreds of PC's with no incident over the last dozen or so years of heavy usage qualifies as "luck". And there are many others who can make the same claim. I don't believe using a PC makes it foregone conclusion that my computer will be hijacked, crash constantly or become virtually unusable, or as you seem to claim that using a Mac will forever insulate me from those potential problems.
rjseeney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 6:17 AM   #93
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Default Awin

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTphotog View Post
Face it, the only reason viruses haven't made serious attempts at Mac networks, is because there aren't any worth bothering with. Major corporations run PCs, on Windows. All other OS are such a small target, nobody bothers much.
brian
It's not that hackers can't be bothered with the Mac, it's because the Mac OS is more difficult to hack as opposed to Windoze. Do you really think these guys can't be bothered to attack the 10's of millions of Mac users. I remember a $40,000 prize was offered if someone could create a virus to infect an early version of OS X (I think it was 10.2 or 3), the prize was never claimed. The problem for Windoze is email and internet connectivity/functionality is built into the Windoze OS thus making it very easy for viruses to spread to other PC's, unlike a Mac where this functionality is completely separate. For example when a PC is infected with a virus it can email itself out without the user knowing because it happening in the background, on the Mac the email program has to be open and running to execute such a routine. Basically Windoze is a patched system running under an archaic OS...DOS.
soho100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 8:10 AM   #94
Senior Member
 
mrpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 282
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PvrFan View Post
And that proves what?
Recently, there was a virus that exploited PDF protection (many jailbreaks were based off of this as well). If Apple can't make an iPhone iOS virus/jailbreak proof then there's no way they can have a full OS "virus proof" as so many here state.

I do not mean to say that Macs are worse then Windows, but for some of us, like JimC and I, can use windows to the best of its ability since we are aware of the risks and can protect ourselves from them. But for those that just want no hassle, as most don't, then Mac is for you. However, those who fully use all the hardware to the max and get little programs for everything, and want to be compatible with the world, like me, and who see Macs as crippled (from experience) like me, then they should not go for mac unless they have a lot of money to spare on hardware and software alternatives.
What I'm saying is that people who like mac like mac, and people who like pc like pc. That's obvious, but because the other people don't like it doesnt mean you should tell them to - that goes for both parties.
If you were going to give me an imac, id use it, and enjoy it (well, I'd probably sell it). I don't hate mac, I just like Pc more.

Here are some OS stats:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-200911-201010
Mac is pretty much a drop in the bucket. 6% of the market, and little significant rising in the past year.
__________________
my photography

No photographer is as good as the simplest camera. ~Edward Steichen

Last edited by mrpete; Nov 15, 2010 at 8:13 AM.
mrpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 8:28 AM   #95
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Quote:
It's not that hackers can't be bothered with the Mac, it's because the Mac OS is more difficult to hack as opposed to Windoze. Do you really think these guys can't be bothered to attack the 10's of millions of Mac users. I remember a $40,000 prize was offered if someone could create a virus to infect an early version of OS X (I think it was 10.2 or 3), the prize was never claimed...
You don't need viruses (self replicating) malware to steal data, form spambot networks, etc., and a number of researchers will tell you that Macs are easier to hack into compared to newer versions of Wndows. ;-)

As for contests...

If you research the contests sponsored by Tipping Point, a Mac was hacked in 2007 for a $10,000 prize on the second day.

Basically, the way the contest is setup, the first day you're more restrained on what you are allowed to do. But, the second day, you're allowed to use any software installed with the operating system to exploit vulnerabilities, and all that was needed was to use Safari to visit a carefully crafted (i.e., booby trapped) web page with malicious javascript on it to get full control over a Mac wth access to anything on it. You'll find lots of articles about it. Here's one:

http://www.macworld.com/article/5748...4/machack.html

In the 2008 pwn2own contest, a Mac was hacked again by another undisclosed vulnerabiity in Safari for another $10K prize, with the same technique (using Safari to visit a carefully crafted page with malicious code on it designed to take advantage of a vulnerability). Again, you'll find lots of articles about it. Here's one:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/28/mac_hack/

In 2009, same thing (Mac hacked, just by using Safari to visit a web page with malicious content on it, using yet another previously unknown vulnerabiity). It only took a few seconds. Here's an article about it:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/p...n-seconds/2917

BTW, if you dig around for interviews of Dino Dai Zovif in 2007 (one of winners of the 2007 contest), he's said that OS X code is less secure compared to Vista (and he's a Mac user) due to the quality of the code (with more potential vulnerabilities with the Mac). Here's one inteview (and there are many more around).:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...7&pageNumber=3

But, at the same time, he uses a Mac and feels that Mac users are at less risk. But, that's because they're not targeted as much as Windows users. Keep in mind that Apple is now in the lead (or at the bottom, depending on you look at it) in vulnerabilities compared to other major vendors (exceeding every other major vendor in the number of security vulnerabilties)

As for how he feels today, you'd have to find a current interview. But, if you keep up with that type of thing, there have been botnets found using Macs after Trojans were planted by getting users to install infested software. That's a very common way of installing malware (fooling the user into installing something, as mentioned in my last post), and more than one new Trojan has been found for OS X this year. Spyware in Mac Screen Saver programs is another problem being found more often now.

Sure, Macs are far less at risk because they're really not targeted in the way Windows is. But, given that Win 7 is far less vulnerable than prevous versions of Winidows; IMO, it's only a matter of time before we see OS X targeted by more criminals (as that's the trend we're starting to see over the past few years with new Trojans being found that target OS X). BTW, if you setup a non-Admin account for Windows 7, it's far tougher to compromise (i.e., installing something without the user's knowledge). So, MS has been hard at work to improve Windows security and it's actually very good anymore if a user takes some precautions.

But, no OS is totally secure. So, I wouldn't automatically assume that Macs are immune, and make sure to take precautions like installing all patches as they're released (OS, browsers, plugins, etc.), since "critical level" vulnerabilities for OS X and programs running on it are patched on a regular basis, that could be exploited by criminals to execute code remotely.

Apple is also noticing the trend, and now includes malware protection in Snow Leopard to prevent well known malware targeting OS X from installing (basically, OS X now uses the same technique as a commercial anti-virus software package, to look at software you're installing to see if has the same signatures as known malware for OS X). So, I'd make sure to keep your system patched as Apple releases updates.

Ditto for other operating systems (Linux, Windows). Keep patches up to date.

If you look at malware trends, it's increasing at an extraordinary pace. For example, in 2009, PandaLabs reported seeing 25 Million new samples of malware (more than in the previous 20 years *combined*), wiith banker trojans being one of the fastest growing types. See this page (with links to download their report):

http://pandalabs.pandasecurity.com/2009-annual-report/

As for Macs, Sophos is now seeing 500 new Mac specific malware samples every month. See this article:

http://www.antivirusmac.com/mac-malw...n-the-rise/534

Sure, that's a *very* tiny number compared to malware targeting Wndows users, and I agree that Mac and Linux users are at far less risk compared to Windows users (especially XP users, since XP is far more vulnerable compared to Win 7).

I help friends and family using Windows remove malware on a regular basis (with fake antivirus software, fake hard disk optimization software and more found on them, as well as some dangerous trojans from time to time, including keyloggers), and I often install Linux for them in a dual boot configuration and suggest they use it instead of Windows to stay safer (since far less malware targets non Windows operating systems).

Sometimes, they don't even know they're infected (just wanting help because their PC is running so slow and crashing periodically) One way criminals make money is by using networks of infested PCs to send Spam (very common anymore) and I've found that type of malware installed, too.

If you look at security reports, Macs are often considered to be "soft targets" by researchers, due to more security vulnerablities being found compared to other platforms; and many researchers agree that we'll start seeing more malware targeting them as time passes (as Mac specific malware is on the rise).

Again, just raising awareness, as many Mac and Linux users assume that they're immune to malware (as I see is a common attitude in forum threads like this one).
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 8:33 AM   #96
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpete View Post
but for some of us, like JimC and I, can use windows to the best of its ability since we are aware of the risks and can protect ourselves from them
So using Windoze is risky...hmm. I wonder what I should buy my daughter for Christmas, a product that puts her personal data at risk and creates a fear of opening attachments, downloads etc. or one that provides a safe environment for work and play. I appreciate that seasoned Windoze users are aware and on the ball when it comes to viruses etc. but unfortunately most people are not.
soho100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 8:44 AM   #97
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
As for Macs, Sophos is now seeing 500 new Mac specific malware samples every month. See this article:
http://www.antivirusmac.com/mac-malw...n-the-rise/534
Of course they are seeing "500 new Mac specific malware samples every month" they want to sell their Mac AntiVirus software...it's called scaremongering. I manage 3 companies with 100 Macs, I have many friends who do the same...not one of us have ever found a single copy of malware on any of the Macs. Maybe we are just lucky.
soho100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 9:18 AM   #98
Senior Member
 
mrpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 282
Default

Well, if your daughter does not know much about computers and only wants to browse the internet and write paper then by all means get her a Mac.
Oh right, and you have the grand or two premium that Apple charges you to use their stuff.
My sister would probably be better off with a mac, but even with cheap hardware these days an entry Mac laptop is the same as a gaming laptop or desktop. That's another reason why Windows will be more popular than Mac for a very long time - the prices.
So get her a Mac. As I said, it is good for those who know little of internet security and of how to install software. If you read my previous posts I said that different things are good for different people. Duh. So I am not arguing with you there.
A mac won't keep you from filling in phony offers and clicking on ads either. You can still get scammed no matter what OS you are on if you have no common sense. Also note there are universal threats, like some spyware. On my website, I can track all visitors, their IP adresses, their browsers, their OSes, and even their screen rez. If I can do that with a simple common wordpress app, I wonder what facebook et all can and will keep track of.
Also note that virus protection just takes some know how (ie how to use the software). Basically every male I know 15-35yrs old (and most 35-50yr olds) knows what a computer is and how to protect it. Either it's easier than you think, or we are all seasoned windows users. Obviously if windows has 90% of market share then they aren't that bad.
__________________
my photography

No photographer is as good as the simplest camera. ~Edward Steichen
mrpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 12:38 PM   #99
Senior Member
 
Old Boat Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjseeney View Post
One question though...so what does everyone think...Canon or Nikon
Sony

Wave01. Cool that you are digging the Mac. I hope it serves you well for many years and there is no good reason why it shouldn't.

I use PC's because the Mac products will not run my software suites (Autocad, Mercanti, Hullforms, etc). They have never tried to be an engineering tool so I never had reason to go there.

soho100. I cannot disagree with your assessment of the risks that can be inherent with running Windows.

"I manage 3 companies with 100 Macs, I have many friends who do the same...not one of us have ever found a single copy of malware on any of the Macs. Maybe we are just lucky."

It is not luck. For many years it has been lack of interest due to market share in the low single digits combined with a closed architecture OS/hardware platform. Your OS has always been more secure and should continue to be for the most part. The Apple forums have been discussing this topic and it is interesting that one of the selling points of the OSX.6 was an expanded Applications Firewall.

How is it scaremongering when Apple themselves warn of the coming increase in threats and their response as a company? You are getting a new app firewall and from a little reading it seems you have had built in malware detection for some time. It should come as no surprise that you are finding no malware when you have malware defenses packaged into your OS. Were Microsoft to do that they would get hit with another anti-trust suit. (not that they would not have it coming)

As a PC user I run a multi-level defense. I came into it incrementally so it is no big deal to maintain. With Apple's marriage to Intel your potential for issues will come through your apps and the instruction coding of the controller chip-set as your OS may end up running the same instruction base as mine. The Mac closed architecture was always the saving grace and that may no longer be the case.

I am not trying to spread fear nor am I suggesting that someone not buy a Mac if the system should satisfy their needs. Everything falls down to how the integration was performed. If Mac took hardware and wrote the instruction code in typical Mac fashion you should be alright. If they use the hardware supplied firmware and modify the OS to accommodate Intel it could easily be your welcome to the same party the PC users have attended for decades because Intel has the potential of teaching your beloved Mac the "secret handshake" that grants you admission.

It is always easier to be out in front of these things than it is to play catch-up. The Mac has always been set it and forget it but this merger is something you should be watching.

Steve
Old Boat Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 15, 2010, 1:17 PM   #100
Senior Member
 
mrpete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 282
Default

I agree about Sony, Steve.
Good point: it can't be scaremongering if Apple warns us about problems as well. They recently released an update for OSX that fixed security holes. Wait, that means that they had security problems. So much for total security.

And again, if you are an engineer (large portion of computer users), then it's a duh to get windows. Mac fans, please don't assume Mac is good for everyone, just as I am not doing the same with PC. I doubt anyone can argue with that.
__________________
my photography

No photographer is as good as the simplest camera. ~Edward Steichen
mrpete is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 2:43 AM.