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Old Nov 6, 2010, 5:00 PM   #41
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I've got nothing against Mac, and have considered switching several times,(especially when the mini came out) but ultimately I'm with JimC...you can't be the costs and the vast availability of software. I also haven't encountered the problems everyone seems to harp on about instability, poor reliability etc of Windows. I download a lot of stuff and spend several hours a day on line, so I would consider myself a heavy user. Yes I hate the bloatware that comes with windows systems and have to spend an hour or so deleting junk every time I get a new system. I've got one system that is still running strong after 8 years, and another that is almost 6 years old, both of which are used daily by my kids. I have burnt through some laptops (one every 18 months or so) but I carry them for work and the hardware fails before the software has become unusable.
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Old Nov 6, 2010, 6:13 PM   #42
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The price of the Mac has always been greater than the PC. And a Ferrari has always cost more than a Volkswagen. Apple has always kept control over the construction of their machines and dont let anyone just pick off any shelf any piece that will do the job. The thing that does tick me off about the Mac is their lack of service centers. The lack of available software dealers (other than internet purchases). There is only one source to purchase a Mac in my area -- Best Buy/Future Shop. There are a very few other dealers in the downtown Toronto area. But all inconvient for me to get to. But from past experience, once the purchase is made, Im confident I wont need the service center any time soon. After I got my Mac Mini, it was up and running within 3 minutes of plugging it in. I didnt need a new monitor, keyboard, mouse, or camera so the price of the computer itself was slightly more expensive than a PC. If you need the peripherals then it does get expensive. But how much is it worth for peace of mind? Losing work or important files from break down has a value. Sending the computer to the fixit shop has a value. All the down time has a value. Better to have put it on a good quality reliable machine in the first place. My first Apple was an Apple II+. I have a Performa 5200, an iMac, and the Mac Mini. All in good operating condition. They just outlived their usefulness because of the technology at the time they were built. My Macbook Laptop died from an electrical overload which was my fault for not hooking it up to a circuit breaker box. But I plan on getting it fixed. I do believe that Mac owners really do like their machines.
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Old Nov 6, 2010, 10:32 PM   #43
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Well, I wasn't going to get involved in this religious discussion, but, sadly, my Dell just died today- after 8 years of being powered on continuously, the power supply quit. Now I have to spend 50 bucks on a new power supply. What a bummer! Of course, I could spend a couple grand on a mac instead, yah? And buy software to replace everything I have accumulated (mostly free) for the PC.
So, I'll repair the Dell (myself) and let you rich folks buy your macs.

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Old Nov 7, 2010, 9:17 AM   #44
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The price of the Mac has always been greater than the PC. And a Ferrari has always cost more than a Volkswagen.
But Volkswagon is a perfectly competent vehicle and I bet it's a lot cheaper to maintain and run a Volkswagon. I'm betting there aren't many places that service ferrari's, and those that do ain't gonna be cheap. So I guess this is a good analogy.

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But how much is it worth for peace of mind? Losing work or important files from break down has a value. Sending the computer to the fixit shop has a value. All the down time has a value. Better to have put it on a good quality reliable machine in the first place.
The thing about this is, I do have good peace of mind with PC. I've been using computers since the mid 90's, (probably hundreds of systems) both at home and at various jobs,all Windows based machines and have never had any failure or downtime that caused loss of data or productivity that was caused as a result of using Windows (although Windows Millennium almost made me switch). I have had hardware issues (none of those catastrophic either) but those happen with any machine, and with PC's I know I can get the thing fixed easily. It seems the argument that Apple users keep harping on is reliability, no crashes, peace of mind etc. I've just never experienced any of these issues (or know anyone that has)and don't think these arguments hold that much water.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, or that Apple is inherently better than PC (or that PC is better than mac). Both platforms are very good, and which one you use is a matter of preference. Each has strengths and weaknesses. For me, the cost, plus availability of software, and the ability to shop many models (or build one myself) makes PC the best choice for me.

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Old Nov 7, 2010, 9:36 AM   #45
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No one who has owned a Ferrari will tell you they are more reliable than Volkswagens (at least not with a straight face) The reason to own a Ferrari is to boost your ego, and let the world know you think a lot of yourself.(not so different from mac owners, now that I think of it)

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Old Nov 7, 2010, 10:20 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
Nah.. I just don't like paying more to get a machine.

Apple hardware tends to cost more versus other alternatives. ...
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Originally Posted by VTphotog View Post
... Of course, I could spend a couple grand on a mac instead, yah? And buy software to replace everything I have accumulated (mostly free) for the PC.
I grant that Apple is not the cheapest option. But the entry point is not "a couple grand":

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...co=MTQzMDMxODY

Even the low end Mini has a Core 2 Duo processor, decent graphics (GeForce 320M) and a nice package of other features (DVD burner, WIFI, bluetooth, IR, etc). The machine is TINY, SILENT, and stylish (high spousal approval factor!). It comes with a bunch of USEFUL software: including iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD as well as Mail, Safari, GarageBand, etc. U$699.

You'll want to add more storage space: I use an external Firewire drive enclosure. USB works fine, but slower. A gigabit NAS is also a good option. Your favourite monitor, mouse, keyboard and printer will work fine.

Nowadays, the gigahertz race is meaningless for most home users. My 1.7 GHz Mini never takes more than a second or two to apply any photo editing operation. Importing photos is by far the slowest operation and that isn't going to improve until both computers and cameras move to a faster interface system. The value in a computer isn't determined just by the speed of the processor.

If you're buying a lens for your DSLR, do you buy the cheapest glass you can find? Come to think of it, you can get an X megapixel Blahblah from TigerDirect for $69--why do you 'need' a DSLR anyway? They both take pictures, right?

Can we ease off on the (generic, unsubstantiated) Apple bashing? Otherwise, we should give the Lecia folks free reign to thumb their noses at all other camera owners, right?

BTW, I'm not a died-in-the-wool Apple fanatic. I dearly wish that they'd add a mini-tower style machine positioned between the Mini and the Mac Pro. Something with two hard drive slots and room for 2-3 expansion cards. His Steveness, however, has ordained that it shall not be.

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Old Nov 7, 2010, 10:26 AM   #47
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That article sums it up nicely.
I thought it hit the nail on the head ...

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But I do recommend staying away from Safari, it's very insecure and quite buggy still. Even chrome is better.
I'm unaware of any security issues for Safari, I suppose this could be more of an issue for the Windows version, Chrome is good but I finding myself leaning towards Opera again..

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their shiny LCD monitors suck for color accuracy big time.
Apple makes the claim that a vast majority of users prefer the glossy screen over the matte,
what Apple is over looking is that the vast majority do not work on color sensitive material.
Considering that the glass screen simply pulls off with suction cups, one would think Apple would give the option for gloss or matte.

I have read that some people put a matte film over the glossy screen however this is not recommended for color accuracy . the only real solutions is to replace the glossy glass with museum grade glass or, as I did and most others go with dual monitors and keep your project on the second monitor, not to mention the extra screen real-estate is nice ..

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What it comes down to is what a computer can do for you, and the way it can do it.
Very well said , my wife has always been a diehard Windows user. Although I cant help recall a day she said to me " I like my PC better than your Mac after you fix it for me " The only comment I had was for her to think of the irony of what she just said ...

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Apple hardware tends to cost more versus other alternatives.
True however this stands true for any quality product . The question one must ask is how often are you replacing the parts ? If one is looking for reliability this comes with a price.

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I also haven't encountered the problems everyone seems to harp on about instability, poor reliability etc of Windows.
I personally experienced very little problems using Windows based PC but then again I know my way around the machine and understand the maintenance of maintaining it,
I would think that anybody who has both Mac and PC as I do would strongly agree that the up-keep of Mac OS over WIndows OS, that the up-keep of WIndows is by far greater ...

I hear frequently from my wife, my computer seems to be running slower and slower...
I clean it up and she is back in business , my Mac on the other hand just keeps moving on as always ...
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Old Nov 7, 2010, 11:14 AM   #48
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I have had a lot more "spinning beachballs of death" and system crashes with my Mac Pro than on my Windows machines over the last few years. But some of those have been hardware and device driver related, which are not Apple's fault. [Nor of course are most BSD's Microsoft's fault, but the Mac fanbois will never admit that.] And the rest? Well let's just say that my software installations are not typical of most users.

Should I conclude from this that Macs are less stable than PCs? No. An individual's experience is just an anecdote. The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.

But Apple is extortionately expensive sometimes. When I got my Mac Pro in 2006 I had to pay 120 for an nVidia graphics card that had the same chipset as you could get on 30 cards for a PC. When that same card burned out 3 months ago I took my Mac into a service centre. Spoke with a "Genius" at the "Genius Bar". Ironically named obviously. Turns out that they wanted to charge me 399 to replace the card. Not with a new model, but with exactly the same model that they kept in stock. After extensive questioning the "Genius" admitted that one of the more modern cards might work, even though Apple says they all wouldn't, and that if I purchased all the ones they had available and installed them myself (he was strictly forbidden from doing it) I could return whichever ones didn't work. So I bought two cards; one at 120 which didn't work, and one at 280 (same chipset in PC card 145) which did work.

A fully loaded Mac Pro is two to three times the price of PC equivalent hardware (at least in the UK).

Adding a matte plastic overlay onto a shiny Mac LCD screen will NOT fix its appalling color accuracy, simply make it less shiny.

Four years ago when I bought my Mac Pro, it was very easy to rank the OS's available for security, stability and usability:
1. OSX
2. Windows XP.
3. Linux.

Today I would rank them differently:
1. Windows 7
2. Linux (Ubuntu is my flavour).
3. OSX.

But ALL of them are better than the best that was available 4 years ago.

My house has 1 Mac Pro, 2 MacBook Pro laptops, 1 Windows laptop, 1 Linux laptop, a couple of iPods and an iPad. I am certainly not someone who doesn't like Apple products.

Is buying a Mac a mistake? No of course not, they are very good systems for many purposes, and if they suite your purposes and your wallet then go for it. But really Apple fanatics bore me to tears. Still - I own some Apple shares, so I'm glad they exist!!

Macs can run slower and slower too. You should see my old MacBook G5 even after a fresh install of Tiger.
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Old Nov 7, 2010, 12:02 PM   #49
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Adding a matte plastic overlay onto a shiny Mac LCD screen will NOT fix its appalling color accuracy, simply make it less shiny.
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have read that some people put a matte film over the glossy screen however this is not recommended for color accuracy . the only real solutions is to replace the glossy glass with museum grade glass
And I agree ..

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I have had a lot more "spinning beachballs of death" and system crashes with my Mac Pro than on my Windows machines over the last few years.
I have experienced none, My wife's PC not so lucky and Windows Vista in my opinion was a joke for an OS , I will say that 7 seems much better and we have been running 7 now for several months

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Macs can run slower and slower too. You should see my old MacBook G5 even after a fresh install of Tiger.
I have an old G4 running Tiger and it still runs like a champ.
Any computer over time will naturally slow down, what I was making reference to
was the slowing down due to spyware, adware and just over all clutter ....
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Old Nov 7, 2010, 1:40 PM   #50
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Id like to know whats with the screens of most monitors and computers being high gloss. All you can see is your reflection looking back at you. Thats why I went the Mac Mini route and bought a BenQ matte monitor. My Macbook laptop has a matte screen, but I believe they are all hi gloss now. This cant be from the head of someone using the screen all day in a variety of environments.

As for Safari, I stopped using that years ago and find Firefox works like a charm. Im not familiar with Chrome or Opera. I will learn more about them.
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