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Old Dec 9, 2010, 9:47 PM   #11
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During the event I did not have any real issues. They let me set my tripod and use my flash so I ended up about 40' from the stage and up just a hair. I used the new Sigma 70-200 APO lens with the 1.4tc with my flash. The girls came out of the back where it was completely Black so it took me a minute to figure out I needed to set the focus on the arch so I could pick up the girl right away. If they stopped on their spots like they were supposed to getting shots was not a problem and the camera did a wonderful job.

I ran into trouble with the staged shots afterward. I am still not framing tight enough so I know that is part of the problem but it seemed that in an environment where I could not control the lighting that the added distance between me and my subject caused issues on full length shots. I was shooting at f/2 with the 85mm on a tripod with a remote shutter release. I like the lens in a controlled environment but it did not seem to like its first trip out in public.

Great information in your replies. Thank you for taking time to post them.

JohnG, I may be wrong here but I think you were the one that made the original comment in one of the Basketball threads that made me wonder about this. You said something about not liking the 85mm f/1.4 on the APS-C because the change in angle forced the extra distance, and the 85 not working well at the added distance, so you used the 70-200 f/2.8.

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Old Dec 10, 2010, 7:30 AM   #12
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JohnG, I may be wrong here but I think you were the one that made the original comment in one of the Basketball threads that made me wonder about this. You said something about not liking the 85mm f/1.4 on the APS-C because the change in angle forced the extra distance, and the 85 not working well at the added distance, so you used the 70-200 f/2.8.

Steve
Steve, what I have found is that any given lens doesn't focus accurately after a certain distance. Not a scientific study - just experimenting. And I found at least in my case, having a smaller sensor in the camera doesn't extend the distance for which a lens focuses accurately. So, in my case, whether I used my 85mm 1.8 on an aps-c (1.6) sensor camera or aps-h (1.3) sensor camera the focus accuracy when there was a crowded background broke down at about the same point - around 25 feet. If anything the aps-h sensor camera with better AF system did a better job at distance. I've found that with other focal lengths as well. I don't know why - and it may be that lenses designed specifically for aps-c cameras focus at longer distance than lenses designed for full frame. Don't know. But that's my experience with an 85mm lens - about 25 feet - anything beyond that gets bad in a hurry.
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Old Dec 10, 2010, 5:24 PM   #13
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Without going into details Ill just leave it at this.
All of the glass I buy is compatible with full frame and is useable on both 1.3 and 1.6 crop sensors where as the glass built for 1.6 crop sensors work only on those sensors. Having all 3 sensors it only makes sense to invest in one format. For 1.6 crop users you have to ask yourself a question. Will you stay with that format or do you see yourself changing? If you think you might change would it be worth having to sell all your glass and aquire compatible glass or would you rather just change bodies and keep right on clicking?
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Old Dec 10, 2010, 8:18 PM   #14
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Without going into details Ill just leave it at this.
All of the glass I buy is compatible with full frame and is useable on both 1.3 and 1.6 crop sensors where as the glass built for 1.6 crop sensors work only on those sensors. Having all 3 sensors it only makes sense to invest in one format. For 1.6 crop users you have to ask yourself a question. Will you stay with that format or do you see yourself changing? If you think you might change would it be worth having to sell all your glass and aquire compatible glass or would you rather just change bodies and keep right on clicking?
i'm at a loss as to what lens will work on 1.6 and 1.3 crop sensors. wouldn't mind finding out.

but, of course, buying FF lenses would be the safest bet. if only the cost was the same as for crop lenses.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 12:25 AM   #15
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Canon's EF-S series lenses, Sigma's DC lenses, and Tamron's Di II lenses are designed for the smaller APS-C sensor.

The only real dent in JustinThyme's lens purchasing strategy is that APS-C only lenses are smaller, lighter, and less expensive than their 'Full Frame' counterparts, and some of them are quite good. So the convenience and the savings of APS-C only lenses can justify owning them. Plus, shorter focal length lenses may work well on 'Full Frame' bodies, but may become less useful on APS-C bodies.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 8:38 AM   #16
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Canon's EF-S series lenses, Sigma's DC lenses, and Tamron's Di II lenses are designed for the smaller APS-C sensor.

Plus, shorter focal length lenses may work well on 'Full Frame' bodies, but may become less useful on APS-C bodies.
How is that?
35mm is 35mm no matter how you slice it. Whether it be on FF or crop, EF or EFs. Granted the crop factor will give a differnt field of view on a 1.6 body than a FF but a 35mm crop lens and a 35mm FF lens will produce the same FOV on a crop body. My point is you can use FF lenses on any body, The crop lenses work only on the 1.6 crop bodies, they dont even work on the 1.3 crop bodies.

The FOV changes from sensor to sensor and you may find thast you dont like having a 35mm lens give the results of 56mm on a crop body but the crop lens is going to give you the same 56mm.

High IQ crop lenses are few and far between, to date Canon only makes one EFs lens that comes anywhere near the class of the EF being the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS. Not one of the others compare and this one that does come with a pricetag surpassing some of the L glass retailing for just over $1000.

My philospohy is if you want superlative images you need superlative gear. (as well as talent and the know how to use the gear). I started into digital photography from film with the mindset that I could achieve great results with less expensive and lighter gear. I was dead wrong as I found my way being the tightwad that I am upgrading one step at a time wondering what it was that I was doing wrong and could just not achieve the IQ I wanted. In the end had I just not been such a tightwad and went for the gold ring from the onset I would have saved myself a lot of money and headache. The other thing is top of the line glass retains its used value and you can often sell for more than the initial purchase price, the same is seldom true for the bargain glass. Case in point I bought a 70-200 2.8L IS in 2006 for $1300. I used it for 4 years, got some great images with it and recently sold it for $1450 when I upgraded to the new version.

In the end if you are satisfied with the images you are getting from the less expensive gear then you have reached your goal. If you are like me and settle for nothing less than eye popping images you will need to open your wallet.

Last edited by JustinThyme; Dec 11, 2010 at 8:41 AM.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 8:50 AM   #17
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Note that unlike Canon EF-S lenses, which can't be used on a full frame body, Nikon's DX lenses and Sony's DT lenses (designed for cameras with an APS-C size sensor) will still work on a full frame body (for example, Nikon D3, D700, D3s, D3x; Sony A850, A900).

The Sony and Nikon full frame cameras will automatically detect their lenses designed for APS-C size sensors and use a "crop" mode resolution setting with them (and you can also select a cropped mode manually if desired). In the case of a Sony body, you have lines in the viewfinder indicating the cropped view. In the case of a Nikon full frame body, the viewfinder automatically grays out the unused area when a DX lens is attached.

On a D3, D700 or D3s (12 Megapixel models), that means you end up with an image size of approx. 5 Megapixels. On a Nikon D3x, Sony A850, or Sony A900 (24 Megapixel Models), you end up with a cropped image that's approx. 10 Megapixels.

Of course, if you want full resolution (uncropped images) from a full frame camera, you need to use lenses designed for 35mm size film or sensors.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 8:58 AM   #18
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Thank you for the explanation JohnG

JustinThyme, I agree with you on trying to maintain flexibility with the one exception TCav mentions in the shorter focal lengths. I like my Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 DI II for shooting at close ranges. (I think I have made that same comment about my 1911 ) The short Minolta lenses that I have did not end up being as short as I thought they would be.

For the most part it seems the Minolta lenses have made the transition to APS-C fairly well and all of the f/2.8 lenses seem to yield good results as has the 50mm f/1.7. With the crop factor I do not carry a prime under 50mm opting for the Tamron I purchased on recommendations received here.

I was interested in hearing personal observations as to whether or not there may be some of the Full Frame lenses that did not transition well to the smaller formats for whatever reason.

Thank you again for your replies

Steve
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 9:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
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How is that?
35mm is 35mm no matter how you slice it. ...
Yes, but a lens with a 35mm focal length will have different uses on a 'Full Frame' camera than it will have on an APS-C camera. So, as I said, that lens may become less useful on an APS-C body. It may become more useful, but just not for the saem things it's useful for on a 'Full Frame' camera.

My point is that if all you have are lenses that will work on a 'Full Frame' camera, then you'll have nothing that's appropriate for shooting wide angles when using an APS-C camera. So those same lenses, while being perfectly useful on a 'Full Frame' camera, may be less useful on an APS-C camera, depending on what your intended uses are.
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 5:38 AM   #20
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Its all dependant on how far away you stand
Yeah Im aware that the FOV is impacted. IMO in this case I would still get the same FF lens lineup and if I found my wide was not wide enough, get one to cover that FL.

JimC Thanks for educating me on the other brands. Nice to know stuff but it still makes no sense to buy a crop lens to go on an Fx body and only be able to shoot the crop setting, then change glass to move it back to FF. Following that analogy one would have to buy two sets of glass.
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