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Old Jan 9, 2011, 11:53 AM   #11
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I think Irfanview is able to read these raw files, as well, and has the ability to open from the thumbnails to an external editor. The newest Irfanview version is 4.28, and you need the associated plugins to view raw files.

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Old Jan 9, 2011, 1:07 PM   #12
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Unless they've changed things since 4.25 (what I've got installed right now), you can't see thumbnails of raw files (at least from Sony cameras) using Irfanview, even though you can see the full size images OK with it.
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Old Jan 9, 2011, 3:39 PM   #13
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When shooting images in RAW format, if image adjustments are made what format are you saving the finished image? What format do you save images to be printed? If I were to print a 5x7 how should I scale the image to keep from impacting the image quality.

Also, images saved as jpeg by the camera, I'm assuming these are compressed. If the image is rotated (portrait to landscape) in Photoshop does this further compress the image when saved? Generally will this greatly affect the image quality?
Much of the advice that has followed this has neglected to mention that if you use an editing program like Lightroom, Aperture, CaptureOne, BibblePro, etc. then the editing is done non-destructively as a set of instructions added to the RAW file (or indeed an original JPG, TIF, DNG, etc). Those instructions are then stored in a database or sidecar file, and when you go back to the file are re-interpreted. A single JPG preview is sometimes stored for faster browsing performance.

JPG or TIF or even PSD files are generally not necessary until you get to the point where you want to export the image for printing at a lab. If you print from your own computer then a non-RAW file is not required at all.

However when using Lightroom for example note that even if your source file is a JPG, there is zero loss associated with extensive editing and saving, because as with RAW files, changes are stored as instructions and are not written into the source file itself until you export.
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Old Jan 9, 2011, 4:16 PM   #14
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However when using Lightroom for example note that even if your source file is a JPG, there is zero loss associated with extensive editing and saving, because as with RAW files, changes are stored as instructions and are not written into the source file itself until you export.
Then why do the resulting JPEG files show the changes that were performed in one program, when they are displayed in another? ... perhaps even one that doesn't have editting capabilities? ... such as a web browser? And why can't you undo the changes you made in a previous session, even in the same application?
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Old Jan 9, 2011, 5:32 PM   #15
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I take it you've never used Lightroom?

You can undo ALL the changes/edits you have made to an file after import, a full history is maintained. it is a parametric editor. You can do this across multiple sessions.

If you view the original file in another application no changes have been applied to it. The changes are only applied once you EXPORT the image from Lightroom, at which point it writes a new JPG/TIF file.
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Old Jan 9, 2011, 6:02 PM   #16
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Ok, what about all the other image editting and display applications?
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 2:34 AM   #17
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Good question. I've not used them all of course, but AFAIK the following are the same:
Aperture, CaptureOne, Bibble Pro, and even the most recent iPhoto.

DXO Optics Pro is not a program you would use for general editing, but its paradigm is to convert from a source file to a destination file, so you always still have the untouched original.

That still leaves the majority which are "destructive" and write their changes onto the original file. But that was the point of my post. There are now a number of programs which do not apply destructive changes to your source files and no-one had mentioned it to the OP.

So HDon, you would do well to investigate one of the programs mentioned; indeed if you plan on shooting RAW it's almost essential to get one from that list to manage your workflow. By essential I mean that if you don't do it your life is very difficult (not impossible), and if you do, it's very easy.

Aperture and iPhoto are Mac only.
Lightroom CaptureOne are Mac & Windows.
Bibble is Mac, Linux & Windows.
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 8:46 AM   #18
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Ok, what about all the other image editting and display applications?
For Nikon owners, Capture NX2 takes about the least amount of space for its history of any application. One of the complaints about the Adobe approach is that their sidecar files are absolutely huge. Another complaint is that they use sidecar files at all. The Capture NX2 approach is to save the history of changes in the raw file itself, which avoids the two files ever getting separated. I have absolutely no idea what Capture
NX2 does for JPEG or TIFF files, but I think it's weird to do edits on JPEGs or even 16-bit TIFFs as your primary approach to post-processing. As always, YMMV.
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 11:46 PM   #19
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Using what software?

You're using a Sony A500, right? ...
Yes, A500, Win 7 - 64bit. Adobe Photoshop Elements 9.

And I'm not sure where I got it (found it online) but I found a download that was supposed to update the RAW version in Photoshop. The directions were listed for PSE8. I followed the instructions and couldn't get it to work at 1st, then noticed a file that it told me to put into a folder, I noticed PSE9 had this folder in more than 1 place, so I put it in the other(s) as well, then it worked fine.

Now when I use PSE9 I browse to the folder where I saved the RAW images, chose the file (I have no thumbs here to see the image, only the file name), (it takes several seconds for it to do something), then Camera RAW 6.1 comes up and has sliders off to the right side of the screen to do some image adjustments. I then click open image, which bring it up in PSE 9 wiht the changes. (Is this not the correct process?)
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Old Jan 12, 2011, 6:23 AM   #20
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I don't have Elements installed. But, chances are, it's just calling a Windows open file dialogue. So, you'll need to install codecs to see thumbnails. If you see my previous posts, Sony offers one for free that works in Win 7. Or, you can install the FastPictureViewer Codecs instead (which would give you thumbnails for many different raw file types, including your A500's .arw files).
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