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Old Jan 15, 2004, 4:07 AM   #1
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Default Why so much bias against digital???

I have a Canon G3 which I recently won awards in a competition with. Most of the photos I won with were only slightly edited. I was so pleased with this as I had not owned the camera long and had upgraded from a canon powershot 110. I then joined our photography club which is affilliated with the state club. I was looking forward to entering all the monthy competitions. Then I got the list for this whole year. I can only edit my photos on enlargements and they only have four months out of the 12 where digital enlargements can compete. As for mini prints, well they may not be edited in any way and must print straight from the camera. I cant work out why the standard SLRs (I also have one) can compete in all months without restrictions. Cant photos be manipulated in the darkroom as well? I am dissapointed with this as I have a heap of good photos stored on disk but unfortunatlly edited. Is this a form of bias or what.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 4:27 AM   #2
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I got me a new G5 last week but it has been too cold to go outside and take some test pics. Still learning how to use it. Can you post some of your pics?
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 5:21 AM   #3
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wow... no editing... I would tell them that no one should be allowed to shot color negative film either... everyone must shoot slide film and must submit the actual slide! That would be about as close to "out of the camera" as the non-digital can get.. see how they like that suggestion!!!
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 5:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Why so much bias against digital???

Quote:
Originally Posted by aladyforty
I can only edit my photos on enlargements and they only have four months out of the 12 where digital enlargements can compete. As for mini prints, well they may not be edited in any way and must print straight from the camera. I cant work out why the standard SLRs (I also have one) can compete in all months without restrictions. Cant photos be manipulated in the darkroom as well?
I suggest you write a reasoned letter to the powers that be of your club, explaining the equivalent manipulations for film & digital. They'll know it all, but have obviously forgotten, or neglected to discuss it.

Some points to include are.....

1. Are dodging and burning-in outlawed for prints from film? If not, why not?

2. How are they going to police sharpening methods, or even tell that they've been used? If using film, you can use developers that enhance edges, and apparent sharpness, in much the same way as digital folk use USM. Also, many point & shoot cameras apply in-camera sharpening whether you like it or not, and therefore have an unfair advantage over more sophisticated cameras.

3. Are film photographers going to be allowed colour correction filters when they print? Isn't this manipulation, without which most shots would look pretty funny?

Etc.,etc.,etc...;you can make all this up better than I can.

What they need is at least 4 competitions...

1. Film-based photography, machine prints only, straight from the negative;
2. Film-based photography, no holds barred, anything goes;
3. Digital photography, no holds barred, anything goes;
4. All comers; no holds barred, anything goes.

On the other hand, you could try to find a less stupid club.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 7:29 AM   #5
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The club board is, more than likely, made of film camera peple. I see that you have three choices:

1. Try to make changes in the rules. You will need to unite digital users to put digital people on the board.
2. Quit the club and raze a stink in quitting.
3. Start your own club that welcomes all photographers.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 7:53 AM   #6
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<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What they need is at least 4 competitions...

1. Film-based photography, machine prints only, straight from the negative;
2. Film-based photography, no holds barred, anything goes;
3. Digital photography, no holds barred, anything goes;
4. All comers; no holds barred, anything goes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


They do have several competitions, so i guess that the film users will not compete against digital. However my only gripe is the lack of times I can enter edited photos throughout the year. I get the impression that there are more film users than digital although the digital cameras seem to be increasing. The people are nice but I dont think they know a lot about the digital camera at all.

How will they know if I have edited slightly anyway???? the photos are sent away to be judged by experts. Will they know what the look for in an enhanced photo????
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 8:21 AM   #7
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Though it seems unreasonable that the club is essentially saying that film photographers are allowed to edit their pictures while digital photographers aren't, I can (sort of) see the point, though the stand they've taken seems a bit extreme. We digital photographers have, in the end, far more control over our final images than do film photographers, and it's possible that the latter see this as an unfair advantage.

Maybe you could suggest the formation of a "sub-chapter" for digital photographers in the club. Often, working within the system rather than against it results in the largest gain.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 9:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcoultry
... Often, working within the system rather than against it results in the largest gain.
Very likely to be the case since digital use is increasing rapidly. If the restrictions on digital continue, their club is likely to shrink to almost nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aladyforty
... As for mini prints, well they may not be edited in any way and must print straight from the camera. ...
Suggest that both the original and edited photo be entered. That way it can easily be seen if extreme editing (removing power lines, adding the Abominable Snowman, ...) has been done. Seeing the kind of normal editing that is done with digital is likely to go a long way toward getting rid of those restrictions.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 12:23 PM   #9
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I have entered numerous 35mm enlargements (darkroom prints) in the Oregon State Fair in recent years. I haven't won anything but several of my entries have been exhibited.

Recognizing the growth and improvement in the digital imaging field, their entry rules now simply state that digital images or digital prints may be submitted but the print may contain no non-photographic elements. In other words you cannot add things to the picture with your favorite photo editor. This past year is the first time I submitted digital prints (scanned 35mm, 11x17 Glossy printed on Epson Photo 1270) and the only editing I did was cropping, and some lightness/contrast adjustments. No awards but one picture exhibited.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 12:44 PM   #10
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Seems like a common problem.

The clubs I belong to split the competitions into two streams.
1) is slide only and winning here accumulates points to moving up in your standing.
(Digital is acceptable here if you have your image output to a slide, a rather expensive option)

2) prints either chemical or digital, winning here is nice but does not count toward your standing

I've muttered about this to the board running the club but they say this is the way it will stay. Interestingly the people running the club and especially the competitions section have gone 100%digital
Go figure...
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