Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jan 21, 2012, 5:28 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
tizeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD View Post
I guess I'm still not making myself clear. I can see how you and others might misunderstand and assume I am talking about what "features" make a camera a "pro body". I was NOT. Or not intentionally.

When I used the term "pro body" I was talking about the D4 and D800. I wanted to differentiate between the 2 even though they are both now considered "pro cameras". One has a body shell that includes a portrait grip.

I got the term "pro body" from the days when the marketing guys had grouped some models under "prosumer". You would hear such cameras (e.g. D300/D700) be described as "...consumer camera with some pro features" or "(D700)..a D3 in a consumer body (no portrait grip built-in to the shell)". At the same time they only described D3's as "pro bodies". Referring to the shell as well as the feature set. At the time only D3's were classified as "pro". Though eventually Nikon grouped the D700 with the D3's as "pro".
This is classic verification...that marketing guys haven't a clue (again).

Having a body that is developed around a dual grip has absolutely NOTHING to do with a "pro" camera. In fact, historically it is insulting..

Without a doubt, this is a Pro SLR camera.


both it, and the 6th version, the F6, currently manufactured and sold today only offer the battery pack/grip as an option.
http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produc...s/1799/F6.html

Leicas, Hasselblads, and Mamyia's are no less Pro because they don't have the dual grip.

In the digital world, it really has more to do with construction quality to stand the rigors of heavy duty useage, and the photographic features...not the design form factor. Never EVER EVER believe marketing people!

Pro cameras...all full frame (at least Nikon's and Canons). In addition to the D3/D4, that would include the D700/800 series that more closely resmbles the form of the F1 or current day F6, and the battery pack is optional. Reality is, many pros don't need or want the battery pack where the added bulk is detrimental to theor assignment.

On the crop sensor DSLR, the upper end D200/300/300s/400? would be considered pro, while the D7000 which essentially matches and exceeds the photographic capabilities of the D300s, has a lesser body and is the upper end of prosumer, along with the D90 it replaced. In the canon world, the dividing line would be the 60d to 7d. Both very similar in terms of photo and video capabilities, but the body construction is significantly different.

Last edited by tizeye; Jan 21, 2012 at 5:35 PM.
tizeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2012, 6:01 PM   #12
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTphotog View Post
Before you can assign the models to categories, you have to define the categories. This may be why the marketing departments have dropped the idea. There are more cameras sharing various high end features now. I would go with the most open definition: if a pro uses it for work, it's a pro body.

I had a pro body once, but age and inactivity have taken their toll .

brian
Yeah. Probably would have been a good idea. But I think we better end this here before the hole gets any deeper.

I've never owned a "pro body". I never needed one nor could I afford one. Today is a different story. I only hope I will find the features in a camera in a shell that does not have a built-in portrait grip. Will depend on the confirmed features for the D800 or the 5D3.

So far I'm not liking the rumored feature set for the D800. Nor the crazy high asking price for both versions. $3000 (w/ AA) and $3900 (w/o AA). At that rate I would rather spend a little more for a camera w/ a portrait grip like the D3s.

Last edited by BDD; Jan 21, 2012 at 6:03 PM.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 4:07 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
wave01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1,749
Default

I have just read a book on wedding photography and it goes into detail of shots and settings which could have been useful had the book not been 10 years old and its should a 300d as a high end camera. so time and place what we see as a pro body today will be the norm in a couple years.
wave01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 7:20 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
TCav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, DC, Metro Area, Maryland
Posts: 13,572
Default

Almost everything is relative, and you should almost never rely on generalizations.
__________________
  • The lens is the thing.
  • 'Full Frame' is the new 'Medium Format'.
  • "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions." - Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot.
TCav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 2:08 PM   #15
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,529
Default

BDD - what do you want/need from a camera? From recent posts, your posts come across as though you simply want a camera other people deem PROFESSIONAL. What will you be using the camera for? It goes without saying, the lenses and other peripherals you use are just as important. For example, let's say you're a birder. A 7d with 500mm f4 lens and gimbal mount/tripod will get you much better shots than a 1dx with 400mm f5.6. For sports/pj use, the added external controls, dual slots, voice tagging, faster focus tracking, better shutter and robust weather sealing are the major selling points of the top-tier models like the d3s and 1dIV. But, I can honestly say for sports I would again mention I've seen better work with 7d/d300s and top notch lenses than 1-series or d3 cameras and lesser lenses (again, keeping photographer skill about the same - lots of people with no skill but money own the top tier cameras. So, what solution are you looking for? Is it just to own a "pro" body because you now have some disposable income? And I don't mean that in a bad way - we all have our toys. As I said in the other thread, I don't begrudge a person buying 400mm 2.8 lenses or D3s / 1dIV bodies.
JohnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 4:49 PM   #16
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

Hi JohnG,

I find it interesting you have that impression of me based on my past posts (even though you don't mean this in a bad way as you said). I'm not looking for another camera just to have a camera other people consider "pro". I'm not a "poser" with disposable income. I can't stand such people whether it's with photography equipment, cars, wines...etc. I've been into photography since the early 80's. I've only mentioned I'm looking for certain features such as good native ISO range...etc.

My criteria? Ability to shoot in low light (cloudy day to where the only light source is a candle..and flash may not be allowed). I like to shoot using natural light when possible (which isn't to say I don't use flash during the day as well as in the night). I sometimes shoot at various sporting events, dance (I do like to go to multicultural festivals when they are in town)...so having a camera with lightning quick AF/accurate AF tracking...the ability to do 11FPS would also be nice (but not necessary as there are ways around relying on FPS)...candid and non-candid portraits...landscapes, architecture...travel photography (so good weather sealing, 2 card slots would be handy)...the ability to shoot 1080p video clips...I'm looking for a jack of all trades basically. Which to me sounds like a D3s, D4 or 1D-X.

If I could find the same feature set in the upcoming D800 or 5D3 I'd rather choose between the two. As I do want the abilities in a camera with no portrait grip. But, there's already a problem with the D800 (2 versions rumored) and it's rumored specs...and it is that it most likely won't have much of a native ISO range, will be based on the D3x (high MP) and will be priced overpriced. Too much of a price jump from the D700. So for now I have my money on the 5D3 hoping it will have the features I want for the type of shooting I do.

Last edited by BDD; Jan 24, 2012 at 12:39 AM.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 5:20 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
TCav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, DC, Metro Area, Maryland
Posts: 13,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD View Post
My criteria? Ability to shoot in low light (cloudy day to where the only light source is a candle..and flash may not be allowed). I like to shoot using natural light when possible (which isn't to say I don't sue flash during the day as well as in the night). I sometimes shoot sporting events, dance (I do like to go to multicultural festivals when they are in town)...so having the ability to do 11FPS would be nice (but not necessary as there are ways around relying on FPS)...candid and non-candid portraits...landscapes, architecture...travel photography (so good weather sealing, 2 card slots would be handy)...the ability to shoot 1080p video clips...I'm looking for a jack of all trades basically. Which to me sounds like a D3s, D4 or 1D-X.
it sounds like you'd be happy with the Sony A77 and the new Sony 16-50/2.8 lens. It's a lot cheaper than the others you're looking at, and, just in case you change your mind, there a vertical grip for it too.
__________________
  • The lens is the thing.
  • 'Full Frame' is the new 'Medium Format'.
  • "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions." - Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot.
TCav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 5:46 PM   #18
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCav View Post
it sounds like you'd be happy with the Sony A77 and the new Sony 16-50/2.8 lens. It's a lot cheaper than the others you're looking at, and, just in case you change your mind, there a vertical grip for it too.
Getting there. Except the "native ISO" range I'm guessing will still be a little limiting since the max ISO is 12,800. I'd like to find a camera with at least a native ISO of 100-12,800 (D3s). Plus, the A77 has pitiful battery life. Comparable to a p/s. And in Canada it's "out of stock".

And I am biased towards Canon (lens selection & innovation) and Nikon because I have several Nikon lenses (had been shooting with Nikon during my film days).

Would be nice if it were FF.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 6:29 PM   #19
BDD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 204
Default

My criteria in order of importance...

1. wide native ISO range (e.g. minimum 100-12,800...as offered by the D3s/D4).
2. quick AF and accurate AF tracking in low light, even using a f/4 lens with a teleconverter.
3. good battery life (something in the neighborhood of what the D3s offers...4200 frames per charge)
4. great weather sealing (travel photography situations...e.g. Jordan).
5. ability to shoot 1080p video clips.
6. dual-card slots (2 CF preferred...dunno if Nikon jumped the gun by eliminating dual-CF card slots in the D4)
7. high FPS (9 FPS or greater...nice to have but not essential).

If I could find a camera the size of a D700 (no built-in portrait grip) with all the above abilities with the exception of #7 (would be happy with 5 FPS) I'd be happy.
BDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 23, 2012, 7:33 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
TCav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, DC, Metro Area, Maryland
Posts: 13,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD View Post
Getting there. Except the "native ISO" range I'm guessing will still be a little limiting since the max ISO is 12,800. I'd like to find a camera with at least a native ISO of 100-12,800 (D3s). Plus, the A77 has pitiful battery life. Comparable to a p/s. And in Canada it's "out of stock".

And I am biased towards Canon (lens selection & innovation) and Nikon because I have several Nikon lenses (had been shooting with Nikon during my film days).

Would be nice if it were FF.
What it does have is Carl Zeiss autofocus lenses.

How's that for "Pro"?

The A77 has a native ISO range of 50-16,000 And the poor battery life (compared to the D3s) is aided by the vertical grip, which lets it run off two batteries, like the D3s.
__________________
  • The lens is the thing.
  • 'Full Frame' is the new 'Medium Format'.
  • "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions." - Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot.

Last edited by TCav; Jan 23, 2012 at 7:38 PM.
TCav is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:48 AM.