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Old Jan 24, 2012, 3:19 PM   #11
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No layers in Lightroom seals the deal for me. I'm sticking with PSE.
Use it for a more efficient Workflow. ;-)

Products like Lightroom allow you to quickly narrow down a final set of images from a larger set taken at an event, while giving you tools to quickly tweak more important parameters. For example, here's a screen capture from a while back with a filter setup so that I'm only seeing Flagged Images (and I could also setup filters to show only images rated as desired using *, **, ***, etc.):



It's very good for that purpose (faster and more efficient workflow).

You can do the same kinds of things with Bibble Pro (now Corel AfterShot Pro, since Corel has purchased Bibble Labs), too. I've just recently purchased and installed Corel AfterShot Pro and I'm testing it now under Linux (it's cross platform, with versions available for Windows, Linux and OS X). More about Corel Aftershot Pro here:

http://www.corel.com/corel/product/i...id=prod4670071

Note the filter box I just pulled up at the bottom, where you can select only Flagged Images, rated images etc.



Both products can really improve the speed at which you can narrow down a final set of images, while fulfilling basic editing needs.

There are pros and cons to both. For example, I think Lightroom has better Noise Reduction algorithms by default.

Yet, you can purchase a registered copy of Noise Ninja and get access to better NR features with Corel AfterShot Pro (ability to separately control Luminous and Chroma Noise Levels, autocreate Noise Reduction Profiles, etc.). Purchasing the stand alone Home version of Noise Ninja (only $34.95) allows you to "unlock" all of the Noise Ninja features built into Bibble Pro or Corel AfterShot Pro (no need to buy the more expensive Noise Ninja versions to get better NR in Corel AfterShot Pro or Bibble Pro).

You'll find third party plugins available for both products. Corel AfterShot Pro does some things better by default (layers, etc.). But, you can find third party layers plugins for Lightroom. Here's one example, since layers is being discussed:

http://www.ononesoftware.com/product...ct-layers/?ind

IOW, there are pros and cons to any of them, but products like that can also be enhanced via third party plugins.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 3:23 PM   #12
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I guess I am a bit out of date with this. I had thought Lightroom was a continuation of the old Pixmantec Rawshooter program, and intended more as a Raw developer than photo editor, sort of along the lines of Raw Therapee.

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Old Jan 24, 2012, 3:44 PM   #13
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They do loads more.

Download the trial versions and give them a spin. With Lightroom, you can get a public beta of LR 4 now. Go here (just setup an account with Adobe if you don't already have one and you can download the latest LR4 Beta version). Just keep in mind that it's still a beta release.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroom4/

For the current LR3, you can download a trial version here (click on the "Try" button).

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshoplightroom/

But, I'd probably just go with the latest LR4 Beta instead.

I'd also suggest giving Corel Aftershot Pro a spin. Get a trial version of it here:

http://www.corel.com/corel/product/i...id=prod4670071

Corel AfterShot Pro is very appealing to me because I use Linux >90% of the time, and the same license key allows you to use it under multiple operating systems (Windows, OS X, Linux).
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 6:34 PM   #14
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I like my workflow just fine the way it is. Nothing you've mentioned would benefit me.

... and if it can't do layers, then none of that other stuff matters.
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 2:19 AM   #15
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Its always personnel taste from my point of view I use Aperture 3 for my RAW conversion and then if i need more then its pse9
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 8:55 PM   #16
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Actually, you can do layers within Lightroom, but not natively. In the develop module > Photos > Edit in (or Cntl N shortcut) launches Photoshop which is the preset default. Then do the work in Photoshop (or whatever editor/plug-in you selected) and saves the file back into Lightroom as tif preserving layers

Edit>Preferences>External Programs lets you name other programs and establish as primary or secondary. While I have some Nic plugins as secondary, choosable under the Photo>Edit In above, presumably could add PSE which I don't have.

One thing that drives me crazy though...if you start it in Lightroom, you have to maintain it through Lightroom. By that I mean, make changes to file in Lightroom, close it, then launch Photoshop and it doesn't read Lightrooms instruction file, so it is like you are starting at the beginning of an untoughted file.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 5:59 AM   #17
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Unsat, but thanks.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 7:07 AM   #18
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Unsat, but thanks.
Actually, it is not quite as bad as it sounds...but would be greatly improved if Adobe had designed where each program in their suite had similar look and feel like Microsoft does with their Office suite. Being very adept with Photoshop, learning the sequences and shortcuts was perhaps the hardest part in Lightroom.

Lightroom, of course, excells at organizing with key word searches in the Library Module. But then it add some very powerful tools on the develop module...and that is not even looking at slideshow and export capabilities.

Within the Develop module, there is a huge timesaver. Currently in Photoshop, you bring up one RAW file at a time and make the same base adjustments to each raw file before opening fully in Photoshop. In Lightroom you see all files in the library as you work on one making those same adjustments - exposue, contrast, white balance, tone, lens correction, etc. Then, then choose the files from the same shoot (perhaps all interior, or a specific lens, etc) that you would be making those same adjustments on in Photoshop. Hit Sync and all the selected files have that adjustment applied, now ready for individual tweaking - croping, fine adjustments, etc. For the 5-10% that may actually benefit with adjustment layers or highly advanced, creative applications launch Photoshop from within Lightroom - or work independently with just those files, not the entire shoot. (It is the working independently that doesn't recognize the changes made in Lightroom, so starting from scratch on that file).

While I typically shoot real estate - so less than 30, it is really a tossup, but still a huge timesaver in post which usually takes more time in Photoshop than the actual shoot. Consider a wedding with hundreds to process and a major timesaver. Plus on the save/export can rename, resize, watermark, copyright all enmass and upload selected files to your website server, Flickr, Zenfolio and other services at one time.

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Old Jan 26, 2012, 10:56 AM   #19
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I use multiple image editing applications, each for their capabilities and relative ease of use (Nothing can rotate photos as easily as Microsoft Office Picture Manager, for instance.) It's a workflow that I'm comfortable with. The idea of trying to integrate them all under one superapplication is scary.

And again, I don't care if it excells at organization. That's my job, and I take it seriously.
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 2:33 AM   #20
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I highly recommend the Luminous Landscape video tutorials on Lightroom. They cost about the same as a good book, but are more engaging and filled with useful information from Jeff Schewe who actually has a lot of input into the development of the product.

If you want to move out of the standard sorts of adjustments you do as a photographer into the realm of more extreme digital manipulation then of course you do need photoshop.

For myself I only very occasionally need Photoshop. The absense of layers is not quite the impediment it may seem, due to the fact that the majority of things that photographers have traditionally used layers for in Photoshop are achieved (and far better besides) by the inbuilt processing algorithms in LR.

The printing module alone in LR is worth buying it for, and with soft-proofing finally arriving in LR4 it becomes as brilliant and fully featured as professional RIPS of only a few years ago.

I personally am also very excited about the new Blurb integration in LR4.

The develop module has tremendous features too that often need add-on purchases to equal in Photoshop. The sharpening and NR modules in LR3 are truly excellent. And of course the non-destructive parametric editing is brilliant.

The database and image and file organising features are also tremendous. With free plugins to upload image collections trivially to all the main photo sites and inbuilt Facebook and Flickr publishing - well it just makes it all so very easy.

TCav wants to do it all by hand? Well good for you, but for those without such extreme masochistic tendencies then LR, Capture One Pro, Aperture or Bibble Pro are highly recommended. And if organising and classifying is your thing then LR with the same amount of effort you could get REALLY geeky about the whole business. (See Seth Resnik's video tutorial also available from Luminous Landscape.)

Digital photography before LR (and equivalents) was inefficient and error-prone. I am astonished that not everyone uses these programs.
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