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Old Mar 5, 2004, 9:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mdparker
If I were to get spyder, which do you reccomend? Spyder or SpyderPro. I don't print my own prints. I usually upload them to a site or go to my local wolf. When they print them, do they then do their own color optimization to print what they think I want or is there something in my file that helps them?

thanks
I don't recall the differences, but I think SpyderPro has the Optical software which is much better than the other.
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Old Mar 5, 2004, 9:41 PM   #22
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Thanks ohenry. I really appreciate your quick reply.

Any thoughts or comments on the second part of my question though?

Thanks for the input you can provide. I've read a good bit about this, but I'm still in need of learning so much.
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Old Mar 5, 2004, 9:49 PM   #23
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From my understanding, The something in your file is the color information. Their software will read the data and process it as they are calibrated. For instance, if your pixel is 110, 129, 114 (whatever color that is), they will print that same color. I don't think that they will alter your colors (but they may, I don't know for sure)

From your perspective, you have to get your monitor as true to the actual colors as you can. You might speak with your printer and ask them which color space you should save your files (ARGB, sRGB)

Hopefully someone with a better understanding will clarify this.
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Old Mar 5, 2004, 9:52 PM   #24
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ohenry,

Cool. Thanks once again. Makes sense what you said. I don't know why I didn't think about stopping by my print place to ask though. Perhaps they'll be able to shed more light or send me in the right directions.
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Old Mar 6, 2004, 7:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdparker
When they print them, do they then do their own color optimization to print what they think I want or is there something in my file that helps them?
Perhaps you're referring to PIM which is now merged with the Exif 2 data structure as originally proposed by Canon, a competing printer manufacturer: http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1014189444.html
Most older photo editor will discard this information... and once you edit a photo theses info are no longer valid anyway.

For example "if your pixel is 110, 129, 114 (whatever color that is)" the calibration software will map theses values to the display to neutralize the colorization that a monitor might add... A printer calibration(or profiling) will do the same thing, it re-map and neutralizes the colorization that a printer might add... so in the end your "110, 129, 114" is accurately reproduced. The original value is not changed (except when edited by a photo editor), but just how they are represented on the display or when printed.

sRGB is the max envelope covered by a monitor colorspace, which might be different from a non-overlapping printer colorspace. What AdobeRGB is doing is to use a different set of values which is wider than sRGB so that it does not truncate the numbers during computation to a different colorspace such as the printer. The AdobeRGB has to be mapped originally 1st from the camera though... and targeted for an intended output device last.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=3996121
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Old Mar 6, 2004, 8:17 AM   #26
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Does anyone know of a product to calibrate laptop screens correctly?

I have very little control over my TFT screen......just brightness and gamma I think.

And also, what is the correct angle from which to view a laptop screen?

Regards,

Steve
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Old Mar 6, 2004, 8:51 AM   #27
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Laptop screens are very difficult to calibrate because of the reason you gave -- angle of view. Most TFT screens are fine for viewing most things, but not all that trustworthy for critical viewing. I have a LCD screen that I calibrate with a Spyder with great success, but I don't even bother trying to calibrate my laptop. There is a pretty big difference between the image produced on my LCD than produced on my laptop TFT.
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Old Mar 6, 2004, 8:59 AM   #28
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Thanks OHenry!

I suspected this was the case! It is a little unfortunate because I can never tell if my photos (on my website for example) appear too dark or light!!!

Thanks for the help,

Steve
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Old Mar 7, 2004, 6:16 PM   #29
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I usually agree with ohenry, but in this case I can't. Every thing that I have read has said that while the spyder is better than nothing, it isn't that good.

Somone quoted a price for a bit over $400 for a spyder. From this review done only two months ago:

http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc026a.htm

The prices on the competition to the spyder have come down greatly. I have read very good things about both the Monaco OPTIX XR Pro and the Fujifilm ColourKit Monitor Profiler. So if you are going to buy a package to profile your monitor then you should seriously consider these packages as well.

Is the spyder "good enough"? Sure, it is (and much better than nothing) but for the same money it looks like you can do much better. Personally, I'm torn between those two because the Monaco is well respected by some people who write color profiling software but the fujifilm is better with older monitors (which I certainly have.) I need to get something though, having too-dark prints is driving me nuts!

Eric

ps. For those crazy people who really want to do their own research, I recommend this forum:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthrea...at=&Board=UBB3

With 2,300 threads and 12,700 posts... These people take color management seriously.
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Old Mar 7, 2004, 8:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
I usually agree with ohenry, but in this case I can't. Every thing that I have read has said that while the spyder is better than nothing, it isn't that good.
Eric, apparently you haven't read the same reviews I have read or you read them and dismissed them.

The Spyder doesn't cost $400. It is priced at $249 with Optical Software, $200 with PrintCal software. The figure you're pricing is either an old price or the price that includes the PrintFix software.

Is the Spyder the best for the money? I don't know.

Does it make my monitor perform better? Yes

Would I personally recommend it? Yes

Would I buy it again? Yes


Other reviews (take them for what they're worth)
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0209/02...isionpromo.asp (positive review)

http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/prin...605728,00.html (positive review)

http://www.bythom.com/colorvision.htm (positive review)

http://www.camerahobby.com/Digital_ColorVision.htm (positive review)

http://www.dansdata.com/spyder.htm (positive review)

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/m...alibration.htm (negative review)

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=005VbD (forum chatter)
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