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Old Nov 24, 2012, 3:50 PM   #21
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Was the increase in the 'Full Frame' 16MP D4 to the 'Full Frame' 24MP D600 "completely crazy"? What about to the 'Full Frame' 36MP D800?
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 4:02 PM   #22
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... however, Nikon did not go completely crazy and increase the MP's by a whopping 50% like Nikon did when they went from the 16 MP small crop sensor on the D5100 to the whopping 24 Mp sensor on the new D5200 ...
Was it "completely crazy" that they increased "the MP's by a whopping 50%", even though objective measurements show that image quality remained the same?
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 4:22 PM   #23
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I can't hardly wait to review the DX OMark labs sensor comparison test results between the 16MP sensor in the old Nikon D5100 and the 24MP sensor in the new D5200. Naturally, the 24MP sensor will show a higher resolution, but I will be very surprised if this will not be at the expense of an decrease in dynamic range and an increase in noise at high ISO numbers. Stay tuned folks, maybe we will finally find out how many megapixels is too many on a small crop sensor camera.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 4:31 PM   #24
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I can't hardly wait to review the DX OMark labs sensor comparison test results between the 16MP sensor in the old Nikon D5100 and the 24MP sensor in the new D5200. Naturally, the 24MP sensor will show a higher resolution, but I will be very surprised if this will not be at the expense of an decrease in dynamic range and an increase in noise at high ISO numbers. Stay tuned folks, maybe we will finally find out how many megapixels is too many on a small crop sensor camera.
The DxOMark comparison between the 16MP sensor in the old Nikon D5100 and the 24MP sensor in the existing D3200 shows almost identical noise and dynamic range. Why would you think the D5200 would be worse than the D3200?
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 7:47 PM   #25
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Yes, "almost identical", but not as good. If you will go back and re-read the DXOMark test results, the 16MP sensor in the old Nikon D5100 beat the 24MP sensor in the new D3200 in both dynamic range and this new 24MP sensor also failed in the high ISO comparision test....it had more noise. However, I grant you, the difference was not very large, and yes it was "almost identical", but not better. It was not equal to or as good as the 16MP sensor in the D5100, period ! The 24MP sensors dynamic range went down and the noise went up. Any reduction no matter how small can not be considered better or almost as good or identical. Any reduction, is still a reduction period. Almost identical or close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons and deodorant !
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 10:12 PM   #26
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Check again.

At an ISO setting of 12800, the D3200 had a signal to noise ratio of 20.7 dB while the D5100 had a SNR of 20.1 dB. At 1600, the D3200 did 30.1 and the D5100 did 29.6. The D3200 actually has less noise than the D5100.

And remember that noise in a 24MP image is less conspicuous than in a 16MP image.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 11:19 AM   #27
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Please note that I used the word "HIGH" ISO. The D5100 has less noise at HIGH ISO settings. The D5100 has a (0.1 F-stop) high ISO performance advantage. Granted, this is not much but it is still slightly better. The D5100 also has a much better boost ISO than that of the D3200 - 25,600 ISO vs 12,800. It is a well known established fact that larger photodiodes creates less noise, the physical size of the photodiode has a huge impact on dynamic range and low light performance in any DSLR and this impact is even greater on small crop sensors vs full frame. 24MP or even 36 or more MP on a full frame sensor is fine but with 24MP crowded together on a small crop sensor the photodiodes become so tiny that light capture goes down and as a result noise goes up and dynamic range is degraded. And to make matters even worst, the 24MP sensor in the D3200 actually has a smaller physical size image sensor than that of the D5100. The D5100's image sensor measures 23.6x15.6mm vs the D3200's smaller size of 23.2x15.4mm. This makes the pixel density ratio vs image sensor size go off the chart.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 11:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surplusshooter View Post
Please note that I used the word "HIGH" ISO. The D5100 has less noise at HIGH ISO settings. The D5100 has a (0.1 F-stop) high ISO performance advantage. ....
Not so. As I said before ...

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At an ISO setting of 12800, the D3200 has a signal to noise ratio of 20.7 dB while the D5100 has a SNR of 20.1 dB. ... The D3200 actually has less noise than the D5100. ... And remember that noise in a 24MP image is less conspicuous than in a 16MP image.


Quote:
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It is a well known established fact that larger photodiodes creates less noise, ...
Once again ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCav View Post
... just because the pixel pitch is smaller, doesn't mean the photoreceptors are smaller. Sometimes it means the space between them is smaller. ...
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 5:39 PM   #29
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I guess the IQ v pixel count comes down to a trade off...
It seems to me that the IQ (high iso noise,DR etc...) for example, between the D5100 and D5200 is very small- yet the extra resolution is quite a bit.
If someone needs the extra resolution in a given application,it seems to me they're getting it at very little detriment in IQ....
As I say, one just has to weigh up the trade off- some would happily accept the miniscule IQ drop for a large-ish gain in MP- others might not....

Curiously, given that neither the D5100 or D5200 are "pro" camera's- one could argue that the D5200's 24mp resolution would rarely be of any benefit- yet even if the D5200 produced more high iso noise- you'd barely notice it (compared to the D5100) in many applications due to its "fine" grain nature- especially if viewing at a reduced size... or the size akin to the D5100...!

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Old Nov 25, 2012, 6:13 PM   #30
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I think it was odd for Nikon to put the 24MP sensor in the D3200. It would be much more apporpriate in an upgrade to the D7000 and D300s (possibly the D5100.) But it sets the bar a little too high for the bottom of the line, not because of image quality, but because of the considerably larger filesizes.
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