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Old Feb 15, 2013, 4:51 PM   #21
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You are running around the question, when you can shooting a low light shot even static sometimes, you do not have enough light that you need 1600iso. So which will be better at 1600iso given that situation. f2 at 1/50 sec at 1600 or 1/20 set f3.5 at 1600. Because you logic is a bit flaw, you can add a cheap prime used with that old dslr that is f1.8 as well. Then we can add 1/60 at f1.8 at 1600.
No. The situation doesn't change, the equipment does. A Canon XT with an 18-55 kit lens has a maximum aperture of f/3.5, while the Canon Powershot S110 has a maximum aperture of f/2.0 at the same 35mm equivalent focal length. That means any shot the Powershot can take at ISO 800, the XT will need to use ISO 2500. The Powershot will produce better quality images at ISO 800 than the XT will at 2500.

The OP is considering getting an old, cheap dSLR to get good quality images without spending a lot of money. Are you now suggesting that he not only buy a dSLR, but some additional lenses for it? What if he needs the "macro" capability that is built-in to most P&S cameras. The cost of an additional macro lens will certainly eliminate any savings he may have enjoyed by buying a used dSLR, wouldn't it?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 5:40 PM   #22
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the question was 1600iso. And you do not want to answer it. The dslr at 1600 or the point and shoot at 1600.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 6:08 PM   #23
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I think the OP needs to come in here and be a bit more specific with his planned applications for the said camera.
If the OP will be shooting,handheld,indoors at wide-angle ALL of the time,then the S110 (or such like) wouldn't be a bad option. As you say Tcav- the fast stabilized lens kinda diminishes the IQ advantages of the large sensor DSLR. With regards IS- my Canon IS lens allows me to shoot indoors at 1/8th sec with a very high hit rate- would the IS of the S110 be as effective being held at arms length...?
The pocketability of the S110,full manual control,video capture,macro,etc... all ads up to a handy little camera- though the DSLR does offer a far better handling/shooting experience- with faster AF,fast manual zoom,stable shooting (benefiting IS capability) plus the option to add all manner of lenses/accessories in the future if one so wishes.
Ultimately,across the photographic board,the DSLR is still king, but maybe for one such specific application- and on a budget- maybe the fast lens compact makes sense...!

However,having owned an Olympus XZ-1 and a Samsung EX-1- whilst good little camera's, I would say the fast lens enabled faster shutter speed use outdoors as opposed to useful indoor low light use- neither being of any use past iso 400 and still not really allowing enough shutter speed consistently indoors at that setting.
DXO suggests the S110 is superior... I hope so...
I was shooting in VERY poor light indoors the other day with my V1- and whilst I restricted my iso usage to 800- and with the standard kit lens- the very effective stabilizer seemed to me to be a rather large factor in obtaining good low light pics.
So perhaps a stabilizers effectiveness is at least as important as a sensor/processors abilities and the speed of a lens...
The indoor foundry shots seen here...
http://forums.steves-digicams.com/ot...ml#post1337644
... were shot between 1/6th and 1/20th sec shutter speeds...
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 6:15 PM   #24
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I shoot down at 1/15 allot with unstablized primes at 1.4 at 1600 or 3200. And the s110 really do not want to be up there.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 6:18 PM   #25
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the question was 1600iso. And you do not want to answer it. The dslr at 1600 or the point and shoot at 1600.
And that's exactly the question I said was irrelivant.

Yes, the dSLR will produce better image quality at ISO 1600 than the P&S.

So what?

In the same lighting conditions, where the dSLR will need to use ISO 1600, the P&S by virtue of its faster lens can use ISO 500, and thus produce better image quality.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 6:25 PM   #26
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no you just wont admit that you really do not want to be up that high with a point and shoot. 800iso is where current point and shoots perform good up too. Anything higher they struggle. And when you are at 1/20 vs 1/60 at max aperture. You then need iso to come into play. Even with the modern pns with the f2 or f1.8 lenses. Going to a dinner party at a cozy restaurant will give you lighting that you still need 1600iso. That is when the 450d 50 1.8 at 1600iso will just run away form the point and shoot.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 7:28 PM   #27
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lets level the playing field say we get an is body, sony a3xx body with a minolta 50 1.8, which is going to shoot better at the same settings at 1600iso.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 10:37 PM   #28
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Sorry for the question, but what is a "fast lens" (focus speed?, shutter speed??, zoom speed?)?

The last time I used an SLR was at school, and this was an analogue (likely 1970th) model with that we shot B/W photos and developed them in our own lab. I am no fan of crushing my eye on a viewfinder (it feels as outdated as having a black cloth over the head with a magnesium flare in the other hand), but what I miss with P&S digicams is the focus ring. Maybe its because my Jenoptik didn't focus too well indoors, but when I can turn a ring, it at least gives me the satisfaction (or illusion?) that its me and not the stupid camera that focusses badly.

One main interest is documenting the inside of electronic devices (old music keyboards, historical videogames, tube amplifiers etc.). For explanation see: Samsung WB210 review (big touchscreen,wide angle,non-wifi)

Shooting photos of PCBs without blurring the copper traces (nor drowning them in snow) in average room light isn't really easy. I often use an LED headlamp combined with some battery powered portable LED mini desk lamps and such stuff. But it is hard to avoid overexposure on the reflecting metallic green surface without blurring the rest. My Jenoptic had no stabilizer, but even the stabilized Samsung WB210 (bought for its huge screen) doesn't work that great and e.g. tends to blur the rims. But I expect that the heavy SLR is anyway less shake-prone than modern handbag cams.

I guess Canon 300D or 350D bodies are not for me, due to their tiny screen (and lack of live preview?). So far I remember, a big arperture reduces the "depth of field" (correct term?) and so worsens rim blur problems. Is the Canon 18..55mm standard lens (around 50 on eBay) a reasonable choice? Regarding macro mode, I mainly use that to photograph tiny numbers on SMD components - these are usually only VGA size 50KB detail photos those work well enough on my P&S (combined with LED headlamp) anyway. Taking hires photos of large PCB areas (without over- and underexposed or snowy dark areas) is currently most difficult. Also photos of silver metallic music keyboards with greyish control panel writing (or vice versa) are very hard to expose properly.

Or is there a small and portable lamp solution that helps much more than a better camera? In TV docus about photo studios I often see umbrella shaped special lampshades, but I guess such stuff is way to big and awkward to use for me. I have maximum perhaps 80*120cm space on floor to take photos, and many things (22'' CRT monitor, bigtower PC etc.) are to big and heavy to be moved around for only taking a few photos.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:52 PM   #29
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A "fast" lens is one with a large maximum aperture, allowing you to use faster shutter speeds for the same lighting conditions. The large aperture does, as you mention, reduce the depth of field quite a lot, giving you a fairly narrow focus.

It sounds as if the solution to your problem is more light, rather than a different camera. A light tent would be my approach. A tripod or other camera rest could also make life easier for you.

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Old Feb 16, 2013, 12:15 AM   #30
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I own a tripod, but its too awkward to mount, so I rarely use it. In situations like crawling behind a 45kg CRT TV, into a phono console or home organ among cobwebs and cable mess I am glad to be (barely) strong enough to turn it around to reach the circuitry. More light than a headlamp (main problem is rather its reflections than overall intensity) is hard to put there. I would rather need something like a shirt made of battery operated OLED material to emit distributed (non-spot) light. Or should I build a broad cloth hat (or strap-on trouser legs??) full of warmwhite LEDs (which surely also gets in the way in the most unwanted situations) to take photos?? (I guess such attempts end rather as a Chindogu than anything useful.)

With PCBs (circuit boards), distributed lighting from the side (not from camera direction, and of course without flash) seems to reduce reflections best, but this is hard to achieve without physically large lampshades. Small things I usually photograph on the bathroom floor (with 42W halogen ceiling lamp bowl, sometimes add portable LED desk lamps). Sometimes I lean removed PCBs against the tub to make the ceiling light reach it at a flatter angle, but only with few devices it is easy and safe enough to take the PCB out for taking photos.

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