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Old May 18, 2013, 5:00 PM   #31
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Hi All,

Thank you all, for all of your input on this topic. If anything has come out during this discussion, it's the fact that, we have lot's of choices as far as photo editing is concerned with my guess being that there's more to come.

AND that's a good thing.

Zig

Yes, sir...!

adobe has opened the gate and any smart companies will be scramblin' to fill the gap...

Ya know, awhile back (when I was shooting my Fuji HS10) I was using a program called SILKYPIX
and for the life of me don't know why I stopped using it... I just checked and they support all of the
Nikon cameras including D4, D800/600, D7000/7100 and everything earlier...

I remember a member from another forum made available a RAW HS10 file for anyone to mess
with and see what everyone could do with it... When I posted my SILKYPIX processed example
he noticed that it had better color and detail than his PS processed version... He was able to match
my example when he used SP but he was never able to equal it when he used PS...

Don't know what that means, or even what I'm tryin' to say, but I think I may give SP another spin
now that I shoot the D7k and see what all shakes loose...

Anyone interested can download the 30 day trial here:

http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/


(Now, back to our program... )
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Old May 19, 2013, 10:45 AM   #32
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Yes, sir...!
adobe has opened the gate and any smart companies will be scramblin' to fill the gap...
This is true only to an extent. Corporations are not individual proprietors. It's not all about price. For example, look how expensive a canon 1dx, 24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8 IS II, 300mm 2.8 IS II and 400mm 2.8 IS II are. Sony, Pentax and Oly all have much less expensive solutions but you don't see media agencies (the big consumers of such products - not hobbyists) making that switch. Sometimes you really do need the functionality that isn't present in a $90 solution. Sometimes you really do use the whole suite of products and it is highly desirable to have tool integration. And, when deciding on a business partner for software you often see people going with major players - often at much higher cost - because you can count on that company still being there 5 years later and on having technical support.

Adobe didn't get to be the market leader by accident. I think predictions of their demise are premature. Don't get me wrong - I won't be doing a subscription - but Adobe isn't marketing this product to a consumer like me. Some times you have to let the little fish go, so you can make your money off the big fish. Just ask any successful wedding photographer. They don't stay in business chasing the $800 per wedding customers.

But, as Zig said - us small fish have plenty of alternatives
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Old May 19, 2013, 12:24 PM   #33
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Absolutely agree, John...

Corporations always go with industry standards so that they have compatability... Doesn't
matter if there is a better/cheaper option, if it's not standardized throughout the industry
they won't use it... adobe has quite intelligently over time managed to position themselves
as "the industry standard" so they will probably only see a small hit in profits at first, then
it will level out and probably rise as the prescription money rolls in from corporations...

But for us "little fish" it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise as other software companies
(who would love to "catch" that new "little fish" business) scramble to entice us with just the
right kind of "bait"...
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Old May 19, 2013, 1:21 PM   #34
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Adobe didn't get to be the market leader by accident. I think predictions of their demise are premature.
I agree completely with this. Adobe got to be the market leader in the same way that Apple almost did - by heavily investing in the academic market with discounts and training on the product, along with strong customer support. This created a large base of people trained on and comfortable with the product.
What kept Apple from becoming the overwhelming business desktop maker was strong competition from PCs and corporate accountants who weren't going to pay Apple's prices when they could get similar performance for less money. With software, the differences are more subtle, and the competitors don't have the budgets to make any serious inroads, - yet. It remains to be seen if the bean counters will accept a subscription model. My guess would be they will, as it will be a stable expense, and easy to budget for.

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Old May 19, 2013, 4:24 PM   #35
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what wories me about all this cloud based software is all the problems you can get, their site goes down and your screwed, it happens a lot with online games, you get any number of problems and can find yourself unable to play a game through no fault of your own because the developer has decided to update their servers or theres a bug and theyre trying to fix it or theres been a DOS attack. and because your software cant connect to the servers then it thinks its an illegal copy and refuses to work.
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Old May 19, 2013, 5:32 PM   #36
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what wories me about all this cloud based software is all the problems you can get, their site goes down and your screwed, it happens a lot with online games, you get any number of problems and can find yourself unable to play a game through no fault of your own because the developer has decided to update their servers or theres a bug and theyre trying to fix it or theres been a DOS attack. and because your software cant connect to the servers then it thinks its an illegal copy and refuses to work.
That's why I distrust "the cloud"...
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Old May 19, 2013, 6:13 PM   #37
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what wories me about all this cloud based software is all the problems you can get, their site goes down and your screwed, it happens a lot with online games, you get any number of problems and can find yourself unable to play a game through no fault of your own because the developer has decided to update their servers or theres a bug and theyre trying to fix it or theres been a DOS attack. and because your software cant connect to the servers then it thinks its an illegal copy and refuses to work.
Continuous Internet Access won't make any difference in the vast majority of cases. You're still installing the software locally on your PC. So, you don't need internet access to use it.

Now, Adobe does require internet access from time to time to make sure the license is still valid for your local copy.

But, as long as it can access Adobe's sites at least every 30 days for month to month subscriptions; or every 99 days for annual subscriptions, you don't need internet access to use their products (as again, the software is installed locally and works without any internet access).

IOW, they're still locally installed (just as if you purchased a "boxed" version. The difference is that they verify that your license is still valid from time to time (requiring internet access to verify the license within 30 days of offline use for month to month subscriptions, or within 99 days of use for annual subscriptions).

There are pros and cons to the new Creative Cloud offerings. For example, I'd prefer if they also offered a way to purchase a perpetual license (so that the copy you get doesn't "expire", ever). But, on the other hand, it's probably cheaper to use the subscription model if you plan on upgrading every couple of years, versus paying what Adobe wants to upgrade to newer versions via their older "boxed" pricing model.

Not everyone is going to like it. But, it will probably make Adobe's Creative Suite products more affordable to more photographers that couldn't afford to pay for a new version "up front" periodically, while insuring you have the "latest and greatest" software and features because the new Creative Cloud offerings will be upgraded as long as your subscription is valid.

In any event, if you don't like the new pricing model, there are plenty of alternatives around (as has already been pointed out by other forum members here). IOW, Adobe is not the "only game in town".
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Old May 19, 2013, 11:42 PM   #38
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The down side for the end user is that since you're on a subscription adobe
no longer has to entice you with inovation to buy a new upgrade... IOW; before,
a company may have upgraded every 2nd or 3rd iteration to save money, unless
adobe improved or added a feature(s) jucy enough to get them to upgrade earlier...
Now, with subscription based software, they no longer need to keep improvements
coming to get you to buy... You're locked into the subscription and they are free to
improve their product, or not, at their own descretion... Since your company is
handicaped into using "industry standard" your forced to like it or lump it if you
want to stay compatable, but you still have to keep paying for it every month...!

Do I explain it well enough to make sense...?

It's sort of like adobe has gotten the corporations addicted to their drug and now
they can step-on-it (reduce the quality/potency) as much as they like and the only
out is if the corporation is willing to suffer the pains of rehab to get clean...
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Old May 20, 2013, 4:17 PM   #39
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This is a very restrained thread compared to other forums! I think big businesses will benefit but the hobby or amateur photographer will loose out.
I have moved to a Linux based system to take advantage of some of the programs available. I use Gimp and Darktable for PP (I'm still struggling to understand layers and masking). One advantage of Linux, I use Linux Mint, is that it can be run alongside Windows and has the ability to run Windows programs within the Linux environment. It is certainly worth a try. Don't like it?, delete it. I've deleted Windows and don't regret it.
Perhaps I should add that I don't like large corporate businesses trying to create monopolies and restrict our freedom of choice.
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Old May 20, 2013, 5:44 PM   #40
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Continuous Internet Access won't make any difference in the vast majority of cases. You're still installing the software locally on your PC. So, you don't need internet access to use it.
....
IOW, they're still locally installed (just as if you purchased a "boxed" version. The difference is that they verify that your license is still valid from time to time (requiring internet access to verify the license within 30 days of offline use for month to month subscriptions, or within 99 days of use for annual subscriptions).
Yes - but to do the above you need a hi-speed / hi-quality internet connection ... and while the US &/or Europe might be able to do this, other parts of the world are classed as 'remote'

I am running thru inland Australia where there may be 300miles between towns of under 1000 people - and there is no hi-speed internet connection available in such remote locations. Most farms & cattle stations out here are using satellite. I have people tell me that PS Elements 30-day trial version takes from 45 minutes to 2 hours to download via satellite ... so I hate to think what CS will take to download to those professional users / media users etc in the outback who need such software

Regards, Phil
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