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Old Sep 3, 2002, 2:58 PM   #1
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Default exciting new FOVEON cameras....

where are they? Does anyone know the inside scoop on foveon cameras? Why aren't they coming out in droves? Why do extremely revolutionary technologies always encounter such resistance? Is the foveon being suppressed by death threats or bribes? Or was it all just a big scam or a hoax?
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Old Sep 3, 2002, 4:31 PM   #2
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Nothing strange about vaporware. Sigma is the only one to announce a Foveon imaging chip but so far has been unable to deliver the goods. Seems awfully ambitious for them considering they only recently started selling their own brand 35mm film cameras. it's got a lot of strikes against it as I doubt many serious DLSR buyers would want to get into a third tier lens brand just to get the yet to be proven benefits of the Foveon chip.
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Old Sep 4, 2002, 1:40 AM   #3
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I guess that Sigma is apprehensive about their own product as the Lens Mount used in Sigma SD9 is their prorietory lens mount and no other lenses would fit other then sigma lens, and professionals opting for that model would not buy a Sigma system just for the sake of getting a Foveon Sensor inside the camera.
Also, the price of the camera is set at somwhere close to $3000, which is far too high as compared to Nikon D100 or Canon D60,
I hope till the time Sigma mass launches it's camera, Nikon and Canon, using their expertise, are sure to produce sensors that may pose a competition for the Foveon Sensor
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Old Sep 5, 2002, 11:52 AM   #4
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$3,000? If that's true could that camera be any more doomed? It will be tough enough to convince people that the 3.3mp Foveon is equal to a 6mp Bayer sensor let alone superior to it.
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Old Sep 5, 2002, 12:11 PM   #5
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rumors rumors rumors. at this point no one knows of the foveons capability or whate state it is in. why even bother to compare to what is not even there.

we wait.
we see.
then the sparks fly.
don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!

ps- i would think that the pricing structure would change and line up with competing products. thats a marketing issue.

[Edited on 9-5-2002 by sjms]
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Old Sep 6, 2002, 12:13 PM   #6
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I expect we will hear more about Foveon at the Photokina show in a couple of weeks. However, as I stated back when it was announced at PMA 2002, it will be a major uphill battle for Foveon.

The CCD imager business is run by the BIG guys; Sony, Toshiba, Kodak etc. They have large manufacturing facilities (called fabs - short for fabrication) and make millions of these chips every year. The price keeps falling, especially for the OEM builders like Sanyo who pass the savings on to their customers, like Nikon.

A new technology comes alone like Foveon, yes it is great but ... Foveon has no fab capability so they can't make them and will have to find someone to make them. The big guys won't own the patent so it will cost them royalty fees to use Foveon technology. As far as I know only Kodak has made any kind of agreement with Foveon and we don't know if that was a fab or OEM agreement - will Kodak make the Foveon chip or just use it? Who knows. We're holding our breath now to see if the rumoured Olympus-Kodak (better known as Olydak) SLR camera makes an appearance at Photokina this year. And if it does, will it have a Kodak or Foveon sensor in it ?

But the botom line is that the BIG guys in the CCD and CMOS imager business have to be able to offset the cost of re-tooling their production lines for a new product. Or they can just keep lowering the cost of their existing products to make it even more appealing to their OEM customers that are trying to lower the cost of their cameras to the consumers.

Many new, interesting and innovative technologies have been shelved because of production costs and competitive pressure. A competitor could buy the sole rights to Foveon technology and then stick it in a box and hide it away just to keep it off the market.

But so far there has been very little interest in the Foveon technology by anyone other than us consumers...

-Steve
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Old Sep 6, 2002, 12:23 PM   #7
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"But so far there has been very little interest in the Foveon technology by anyone other than us consumers... "

and we wouldn't want them to give us what we are really interested in would we.
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Old Sep 6, 2002, 4:17 PM   #8
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Well, seeing what a completely noise-free photo looks like, I just can't get myself to invest in any DSLR right now. Even the Fuji S2 seems a bit inadequate. It's kind of like driving a BMW M1 and never wanting to go back to driving a chevy pinto. So i'll just save my money until that noise-free camera comes out.
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Old Sep 7, 2002, 12:15 AM   #9
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Well just remember that we don't exactly know where any of those Foveon example pictures came from seeing as how no one has seen or used a working Sigma SD9 yet.

In the meantime several hundred thousand people are happily using Fuji S2, Canon D60 and Nikon D100 SLRs. I don't know whose sample pics you've been looking at but I've printed a number of photos from each of those cameras as big as 13x19" and they look better than anything I ever got with film.

-Steve
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Old Sep 7, 2002, 10:39 PM   #10
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Now the idea of Foveon in the olydak is exciting. I like the idea of a dslr with its own lenses made for it.

I believe some of the large or medium format digital backs have Foveon.
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