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Old May 13, 2004, 10:02 PM   #1
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You can buy a brand new Nikon N80 for $350 at a certified Nikon dealer.

No delay in shooting a shot

Nofocus issues

No low light problems

Less problems with noise at higher ISA

Action shots not an issue

Less money than a Nikon 4300.

Are great cameras like the N80 no longer a good option?:P:P


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Old May 13, 2004, 11:55 PM   #2
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I disagree with the less noise at higher ISOs. Good digital sensors have less noise than the higher ISO films now. Maybe not the Nikon 4300, but many of them are better than film in that regard.

Being able to change the ISO on the fly is invaluable for what I do. I would not be happy if I had to stay at 100ISO to get the least grain possible (or 50 ISO, if anyone makes a good 50 any more.) Or I could push it to 200; many people get good results pushing Velvia. But even then, I often have to shoot at 400ISO to get the shutter speeds I need. I can't do that without forgoing the rest of the roll. That is not something I want to do often with the cost of Velvia of Provia.

There are many people for whom the film bodies are a very good choice. I know some very good nature photographers who use film bodies. The N80 is a good camera. I might lean towards a used F5 or F100 (still more than $350), but that is because of my need for the best AF and AF tracking I can get my hands on. My dad uses a 8008 and like it a lot.

Another thing to consider is how much you spend on film and processing. If it's lots, digital will overcome that quickly, especially if you have lenses you can put on to a DSLR (like the D100 or D70.) The DSLRs have much better AF and noise compared to the 4300. They might even have the same AF system as the N80.

Eric
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Old May 14, 2004, 12:26 AM   #3
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I don't think film SLRs are not good cameras. Hey, if I had the money for film processing, I'd probably be shooting with a film SLR. But since I don't have that $$, I shoot digital, so I don't pay for my mistakes.
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Old May 14, 2004, 1:28 AM   #4
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I shoot with a DSLR and a film SLR as well, a Nikon F100. Both have their place, and there are things I like a lot about both, and things I wish were better. But I will tell you that the differences between analog and digital aren't all that great, mechanically speaking. Both will still have problems autofocusing in very low light, very dependant on the lens that you use, and whether or not your flash will provide an AF illumination to assist in focusing. As for less noise at high ISO, I use 1600 Neopan (b&w film) all the time, and its grain is very fine, though my D100 will produce less equivalent noise at ISO 1600. But when it comes to enlarging to 20x24 or 20x30, only shots from my F100 will do because 6 megapixels just aren't enough for those size prints. And there's the durability factor, as my D100 is N80 based and not a profesional body as the F100. With a DSLR you can afford to make some mistakes but on a film SLR you have to be much more critical of your shooting choices.
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Old May 14, 2004, 12:11 PM   #5
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I disagree with the noise issue. Fuji 400 film I see no noise at all with my Canon Elan. However my 5700 at 400 ISA, you can see some noise. So I do see a benifit with film cameras on this issue. :-) Maybe the digital SLR's the noise is less, but of course they cost at lot more.
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Old May 14, 2004, 1:25 PM   #6
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There is a difference between the 5700 and the D100 or even the D70. The sensor in the 5700 is not nearly as good related to noise..Of course, the cost is also much higher for the DSLRs. You are comparing apples to oranges. Here is an example of the D100 at ISO 400:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_...0dx_iso400.JPG

More sample shots can be found here:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_...0_samples.html

This is from the D70:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_...105_iso400.jpg

With more shots here:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_...0_samples.html

This is what the 5700 can do at 400ISO:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_...s/DSCN0530.JPG

See the difference? The 5700 is a high end consumer grade camera. The D100 and D70 are low end Professional grade cameras (called "Prosumer".)

If you truly only asked "will I produce a better picture with a CP4300 (or even the 5700) vs. a good film camera doing X"... For that single shot, the film cameramight do a better job.

Butoverall digital has severaladvantages.You learn faster with the digital. The feedback lets you fix shots on the spot (instead of waiting for development of the pictures, coming back the next day and hoping the same shot is possible.) And you can dial the ISO to trade noise vs shutter speed or aperture/DOF. You can't do those things with film. Any film.

But several things are definitely in films favor. The higher end (but not highest end) film cameras have good internal components and are cheaper than digital (F100 for ~$650, F5 for about $1,000 on ebay.) It is very expensive to get equivalent metering and AF systems in a digital body (D1x, D2h, D1h) But anyone who buys the really high end camera is probably going to take lots of pictures... be a Pro. The cost savings of using digital wins out fairly quickly over film... and the quality is equivalent or better when you get into the high end of digital.

And if file continues to advance, your film camera just got an upgrade! My digital is using the same old sensor from years ago.

Eric

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Old May 14, 2004, 2:13 PM   #7
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eric s wrote:
Quote:
There is a difference between the 5700 and the D100 or even the D70. The sensor in the 5700 is not nearly as good related to noise..Of course, the cost is also much higher for the DSLRs. You are comparing apples to oranges. Here is an example of the D100 at ISO 400:

If you truly only asked "will I produce a better picture with a CP4300 (or even the 5700) vs. a good film camera doing X"... For that single shot, the film cameramight do a better job.

Eric
Quote:
Yes that is true. So far those of us who can't afford a D70, a N80 would be a good choice to take care of the limitations of the 4300, or 5700. Form the comparison shots, anytime I know I will need 400 ISA, I will use my Canon Elan with the Fuji 400 film.
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Old May 14, 2004, 4:55 PM   #8
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There are three problems that the SLR cameras have that the Digitalcamera can resolve:

1. Cost of development

2. Verficiation of shots.

3. Time to gratification.


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Old May 14, 2004, 8:54 PM   #9
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Is the AF system on the N80 the same or similar to the one on the D70?

As others have pointed out, the cost and time savings add up quickly, especially if you shoot a lot. I spent approximately $1,000 on film last year (cost of film + processing), figuring $8 a roll since Costco is pretty cheap. That's not counting the cost of going somewhere to buy film, going back home, then repeating the process when it's time to develop. Plus the immediacy of digital--you can get a pretty good idea right away if your shot worked, so you don't have to take multiple shots and hope one works like with film. Once you buy digital equipment, essentially you shoot for free since you just have the one-time upfront cost.
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Old May 15, 2004, 2:51 PM   #10
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I don't know if the D70 & the N80 share the same AF system, but I would bet they would. I don't believe Nikon created a new AF system for the D100 (and that one worked fairly well.)

Eric
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