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Old Oct 16, 2002, 5:34 AM   #1
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Default Soundrecording in JPG file

Hi all,

With my Pentax EI-2000 I have the possibility to record 45sec sound with the picture. The HP technology behind this stores the sound into the JPG file. Now I am looking for a possibility to extract the sound from the JPG file. Does anyone know of software that does the job.

TIA.

Gerhard
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Old Oct 16, 2002, 7:07 AM   #2
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Gerhard-

Look below about 6 messages to the thread "???'s on Recording Audio Memos" (or words to that effect). A good discussion that I think will help you.

Based on my experience, the ***.WAV file will "separate" from the ***.JPG file once you save them on your PC. You'll then have two files - each with the same name/number but with different file type extensions (i.e.- .JPG & .WAV).

In the thread I've referred you to myself and voxmagna have been discussing how the 2 file types can be "rejoined" so when you e-mail a JPG to someone they will simultaneously hear the audio memo. You mention "HP technology"-did this come with your camera?

hogie46
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Old Oct 16, 2002, 8:41 AM   #3
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Hi Hogie46,

Thanks but I already checked out those messages.
The Pentax EI-2000 is the same as the HP912.
When saving the pictures to my PC I only get .JPG files and no .WAV
I copied the files back to my camera and I could play the sound again. According to Pentax the sound is stored inside the .JPG file.
The bad thing is that Pentax does not know how to extract them from the .JPG. On my last vacation I took approx. 1100 pics and do not know which pics contain sound. I don't want to copy all of them back to my cam.
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Old Oct 16, 2002, 12:09 PM   #4
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Hi I'm back! Still find it strange a cam uses .jpg which is a pretty universal image file standard, but stitches sound into it. If the files in the cam were .PEN .AVI or something, I'd understand. So here's a test: Shoot some lo-res identical 640x480 pics and 20 sec. sound on and off. What are the .jpg file size shown in the cam, and in the pc compared with the handbook approx image file size? If they're both very close, You've only got image info. Any big difference really does mean you've got sound in the .jpg file.

So you need to know which files have got sound on? File size should give a clue but the bigger the image file the less difference you'll see. Alternatively, I would say try Exif viewer, Sound option'on' from the cam might be flagged in the header.

In fact Ive just realised, this might be how the little sound icon is triggered by the cams own viewer software. I'll try moving the .WAV's out of the same directory on mine, and see if the icon is still there! It's all part of the 'marriage' illusion for some of us!
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Old Oct 17, 2002, 4:04 PM   #5
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Hi voxmagna,

I took one picture no sound and the filesize is approx. 66kB. Added sound to the picture and the size increased to 312kB. So the conclusion is the sound is in the file. I figured why not the other way and remove the sound to see if there is a decrease in size. Conclusion is that removing the sound does not decrease the size.
At least now i got 2 files one without and one with sound and find out how and where the sound is stored. Starting with the EXIF viewer. The story continues.
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Old Oct 17, 2002, 5:15 PM   #6
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Hi, I don't know how you're 'removing' sound from a file that had it. If this a function in the cam, I suspect once the file has been first created, any removal just fills the data space with null info, and the size stays the same. I could be guessing, but files may be fixed size and written sequentially to the card, so you can't go back and change size in the middle of a set of pics. So already you've learned how much file space is needed for 20 seconds of sound!

If you really want to learn more about cam files, compare the 'sound with' and 'sound without' files in a Hex editor such as Hex-Wizard. Don't be scared by the Hex stuff, just look for text. Your sound data is probably at the top or bottom of the file, and may be preceded by some text. You'll also learn where the Exif data is as well, which Exifer puts on the screen for you. Have Fun!

http://www.download-tipp.de/Detail/1456.shtml
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Old Oct 17, 2002, 5:43 PM   #7
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Hi, yes my camera supports removing sound from the pictures.
I did find a clue in the EXIF information and now know which pictures have sound included. HEX editing is no problem I've been working with computers for almost 20yrs. Now it's time to find out how Pentax and HP put the sound into the .JPG's.
In the worst case I can put the pictures back on my camera and use the audio outlet to save the sound separately. I expected Pentax or HP to supply the software to extract sounds but they don't seem to bother. I keep asking for their support but all I get is answers like "the sound is in the .JPG file but we don't know how to extract". It's a poor service to their customers.
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Old Oct 18, 2002, 7:10 AM   #8
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After you've ferreted around in the file structure, SOUNDS like some members might be grateful for a little utility then, to strip off the sound! Or, at least info for the pc Geeks amongs us on what you've found.

This is too deep for most help desk support. But it would be of interest to know what they are doing in the product, when considering buying.

I'm wondering if they deliberately marry memo sound notes to pics, so they they always stay together, like a sort of 'watermark' - not thinking owners want to edit as 2 separate media sources. Hope to hear more.
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Old Oct 23, 2002, 10:35 AM   #9
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hi, Investigation of the files reveales a RIFF WAVE format file inside the .JPG.
In my very old fileformats (1997) info I found the information needed on RIFF.
It's easy to remove the unwanted data (manualy) and save the remaining data as a .WAV file.
Started my media player and yes it worked but after playing about 10secs things go wrong.
I know the total length of the sound is 45sec because that's what I recorded.
What happens, it sounds like dust on the needle and the counter skips rapidly to 19sec, 22sec and ends.
Maybe my fileformat info is too old, does anyone know where the latest information can be found.
TIA, Gerhard
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Old Oct 23, 2002, 2:01 PM   #10
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Thought I'd check back in since I "instigated" this topic. I've been out of commision since last Thursday as I had a mild heart attack-just got home from the hospital and am doing well.

You guys are way above my head now but interesting reading anyway.

Geek on!

hogie46
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