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Old Nov 1, 2002, 2:51 PM   #21
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Thanks for the links to the other thread and article, NHL, and for your comments, Klaus, and for the letter from Minolta K-Can. I'll admit that I'm confused by quite a few of the comments in the other thread (and I'll post a note there about it). It's not a matter of opinion that there is noise in the shots Phil posted in his review of the 7i, and the letter acknowledges that there can be noise. Here's the link, so all can see for themselves (the relevant shots are towards the bottom of the page).

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/mino...e7i/page15.asp

The noise in question here isn't the hot pixel/Christmas light type, it's the graininess of texture that clearly shouldn't be there. While there are various ways to deal with such noise, all have their drawbacks. If not for the noise, I'd be sorely tempted to shell out quite a bit more money for the 7i instead of the Olympus C-730 (which has its own noise problem). Indeed, if money weren't a concern, I'd get the 7Hi. But certainly the kind of noise in the shots Phil posted is a problem for some kinds of shots, if they are to be viewed at full size, no?
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Old Nov 1, 2002, 3:20 PM   #22
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You can not judge noise from a monitor screen especially when enlarge 100% or more(something will be there). Print is the ultimate answer...

http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers...d7i_noise.html

Also remember there are actually several settings than can be adjusted on this camera to maximize the details or reduce the noise, and it's up to each owner preference that add so much to the confusion!
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Old Nov 1, 2002, 3:40 PM   #23
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NHL, I'm not quite sure what to make of your comments. When viewed at 100%, the Minolta exhibits more noise than its competitors. That's a problem that isn't totally solved by printing, since it limits the size and methods of printing more than its competitors. If you have evidence that this problem can be solved by tweaking the camera settings, without causing worse problems, please share. I doubt that it can be done. That's not to say that the Minolta isn't a wonderful camera, but noise is plainly a particular problem for it.

Edit: I see from some of your posts in the Minolta forum that your theory is that the Nikon and Sony solve the noise problem at the expense of sharpness of detail. Do you have some comparison shots to illustrate this?
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Old Nov 1, 2002, 5:12 PM   #24
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I'm a little curious about the same grammatical errors found in the supposed quote from Minolta that you find in in NHL's posts. Is he the source at Minolta?
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Old Nov 1, 2002, 6:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lobomayo
I'm a little curious about the same grammatical errors found in the supposed quote from Minolta that you find in in NHL's posts. Is he the source at Minolta?
Probably not, unless Minolta has offices near Montgomery County, Maryland.

By the way, the review of the 7Hi at dpreview.com has just been posted.
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Old Nov 1, 2002, 7:06 PM   #26
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Sanpete

This issue is brought countless of time already!
http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=623


lobomayo

I did not write it, it came from the dpreview forum:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read....essage=3380675


There's other indepedent review beside Phil's:
Quote:
The Dimage 7Hi is able to capture long exposures at various sensitivity settings (100, 200, 400 and 800 ISO). Up to 400 ISO, and with a 30 second exposure, the noise remaining after noise reduction processing is mostly unobtrusive.
http://www.megapixel.net/
BTW they reviewed the F717 and the 5700 there as well.
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Old Nov 1, 2002, 7:34 PM   #27
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NHL is correct. There is a trade off a little noise and more crispness in the picture or little noise and less sharpness. The decision is yours. I have a D7HI and love it. Was in the same boat as others between 5700 and 717. But sony baloney memory sticks and proprietary batteries of both sony and nikkon along with no threads for filters on 5700 for 1000.00 camera is a large blunder. I looked at the pics and watched forums for two months then i decided to go minolta. I have previous minolta SLR cameras and loved them too. Never a problem. So< I did not change brands. Others have. Perhaps NHL has owned other brands in the past. He can answer that. But i would not buy a nikkon just to beat my chest that i have the most expensive camera. Remember you can drive to the store in a ford as fast as a lincoln. In all cameras there are trade offs. It is best to defined your own needs and go to a store and hold one and snap a few pics with one. Then decide. Also i see nothing wrong with the fuji S602. Takes great pics for the price. If money is a problem i would go with fuji. If you can spend a little more get the D7i or Hi if you need a larger buffer or pc sync or raw files. It is your money not mine so you get to spend it the way you want too. But remember if you buy an expensive camera you better be sure you will get your money back. I was not willing to spend thousands on a D100 or D60. Then in 1 yr or less have a better one out and hit ebay for a 60% loss to move up a notch and keep repeating this over and over.
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Old Nov 1, 2002, 9:03 PM   #28
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NHL, thanks for the link to the old thread. That thread is full of interesting theory (and condescending comments directed at owners of other brands) about noise in the 7xx, but there's no evidence there. The fact remains that in the evidence I've seen the 7xx shows significantly more noise than its competitors. And it's not a matter of how long the exposure is or whether the camera can produce relatively noise-free shots in low light. That has nothing to do with it. The shots Phil uses for examples are fast exposures taken in broad daylight. If you have evidence to back up your claims as they relate to the role noise plays in the relative image quality of the cameras discussed in this thread, please produce it. I would love to know that I'm wrong about this, so I could start planning on purchasing the 7i.
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Old Nov 2, 2002, 1:00 AM   #29
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I just discovered that the Dimage 7Hi does not have a built-in AF illuminator and it's a pity how some Brand Loyalists of the Minolta will have to buy a lazer pointer, some black tape, and some other weird add ons to make the camera work in night.

ajeet

Quote:
I wouldn't narrow my choice to just one camera brand to save a flash and an off-camera cord, especially when it's not well integrated in this department, and external strobes in general.
http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3864

If one widen the choice, other cameras have much better feature sets as well as foregoing the off-camera cord since it can do it wirelessly with multi-units, as well as multi-ratio. Even though the 5700 is an excellent camera, it can not hold up to the D7Hi in term of speed of operation and features... or price! Nikon might make outstanding film cameras (or dSLR), but in this price category of digicams, I'm sorry to say it's not their best effort.

To get a laser pointer, black tape, and other weird accessories or add-ons to a $1000 purchase in order to overcome the camera limitation and to stay brand loyal is beyond me!
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Old Nov 2, 2002, 2:01 AM   #30
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Do you have a D7xx or even tried it yet, or just reading post around?

I don't need a laser , b/c even the D7 original (v121) doesn't need it; when I first bought my D7 ( b/c of it's low light ability especially ) I was able to focus on a book title in no lightened room, which I can't read myself , try this with another cam (may be Sony but it is not on my list).
Of course, if you use your digicam exclusively to shoot bugs in the wood at night all the time, it's far better to have a one kilowatt halogen projector instead, don't you think so?
I hate (bother people with the stupid red ) focus light , that is another reason why I prefer my Metz over my Nikon ttl flash with my film SLR.

BTW The D7 was my first Minolta , and D7i the second , guess why I stick with D7x , even if I was a Nikon veteran, the last one is a reliable CP950. But the CP5k ( which was my alternative versus D7, I don't consider others, Sony included) simply eat the dust ( yes , I tried both before buying)
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