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Old Jan 6, 2005, 10:00 AM   #21
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CaliBoy wrote:
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Also atlanta greg it's a little personal to blame it on his parents. But that's my opinion.
I don't think so at all. While there's always a rare exception here and there of parents having a "bad apple" no matter what they've done to raise a child properly, most of the time a lack of morals such as this did indeed START with a lack of teaching from the parents. Personal? Perhaps, but sounds true enough.

The sense of right and wrong are not instilled automatically when you are born. Actually thinking about purposely damaging a camera because he simply "wants something else instead" shows a lack of teaching as a child over what is right and wrong. I feel sorry for him, but am glad I'm not one who has to do business with him on any level as I doubt something like this is the only situation in which he has trouble grasping good moral judgement.

Regarding being forced into extended warranties: While I personally do advocate them with cameras costing a certain amount and higher, I have as of yet seen anyone have a gun held up to their heads and been FORCED to accept one. Once I start seeing guns I'll have sympathy for the buyer. Until that time, you need only look at the salesperson and say, "I said NO, and if you ask again, I'm not buying the camera". They will shut up, I promise.

Greg


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Old Jan 6, 2005, 11:47 AM   #22
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I find it specious whenever one quickly brandishes another as a moral deviant without the slightest knowledge of his or her background and circumstance. It's easy to judge another, especially when all one uses is a few sentences to hastily become an authority on this person's moral character, childhood and his parents. I think it says a world more of the people that are so insecure in their own morality and ethics that they must malign others for their own haughtiness.

Sam

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Old Jan 6, 2005, 11:49 AM   #23
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Well, since you're in Canada according to your profile, I did a search for you.

According to the Canadian Coalition Against Insurance Fraud, if fraudulant means are used to obtain an insurance benefit (and an extended warranty is a form of insurance),then a crime has been committed under section 380(1) of the Criminal Code.

http://www.ibc.ca/ccaif_fastfacts.asp

Of course, from looking at the Law (which applies to other types of fraudulent transactions, too), it only appears that you'll get up to 2 years in Prison under current law for what you are wanting to do (since the amount would be under $5,000.00). That is, unless they try to claim your fraud is impacting the price of merchandise and go for a 10 year sentence.

But, I'm no lawyer (nor do I play one on TV), so perhaps there are other laws that you could be prosecuted under, too.

http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec380.html

In other words, what you're asking about is not only unethical, but appears to be illegal, too.

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Old Jan 6, 2005, 12:16 PM   #24
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spark wrote:
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I find it specious whenever one quickly brandishes another as a moral deviant without the slightest knowledge of his or her background and circumstance. It's easy to judge another, especially when all one uses is a few sentences to hastily become an authority on this person's moral character, childhood and his parents. I think it says a world more of the people that are so insecure in their own morality and ethics that they must malign others for their own haughtiness.

Sam
I see ... are you implying that we need reading lessons and english comprehension class? From my understanding of things...a camera has developed faults. The owner would like to get a new camera, an upgraded one for an extra 30 dollars. However, a condition has developed maybe due to warranty issues that only repairs can be made....unless the camera is not feasible to repair-in which case, a replacement may be the only option. And from all of our understandings, the owner wants to find out how to 'retire' the camera permanently by self-manipulation, in order to achieve the objective of getting another desired camera for 30 dollars extra. Is this also your understanding of the situation?
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Old Jan 6, 2005, 12:22 PM   #25
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I am glad to see a moderator piping in on this one. I was about to recommend that the entire thread be deleted. If the user really wants to commit fraud, there are other websites where things like that are freely discussed. One site, in particular, contains information on stealing, making bombs, cheating, fraud, and numerous other shady (or simply illegal) topics. For obvious reasons, I will not name the site or give the address.
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Old Jan 6, 2005, 12:47 PM   #26
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It just ocurred to me that the original poster might try a completely legal approach. When I had problems with an HP 1600C printer, HP offered me the opportunity to uptrade to one of their models that had not had the unfixable problem my developed. They offered w/o me having to ask. In fact, until then, I was not aware a company would offer. So, it may be worth the poster's time to approach them with the idea.
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Old Jan 6, 2005, 12:59 PM   #27
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For anyoneinclined to "help out" our poster, there are also laws on conspiracy and accessories. Here isa section from the CriminalCode for one of these laws(and there are more) in Canada. There are similar laws in the U.S. and other areas, too:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec465.html


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Old Jan 6, 2005, 1:08 PM   #28
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BrierS wrote:
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It just ocurred to me that the original poster might try a completely legal approach. When I had problems with an HP 1600C printer, HP offered me the opportunity to uptrade to one of their models that had not had the unfixable problem my developed. They offered w/o me having to ask. In fact, until then, I was not aware a company would offer. So, it may be worth the poster's time to approach them with the idea.
This type of thing is relatively common (manufacturers offering to let you trade up to a different product versus repairing the old one).Sometimes it's a good deal, sometimes it's not.

I agree that he should look into this with the vendor providing his extended warranty. But, if they won't let him trade up, then he should let them fix it.

Deliberately breaking a camera is not acceptable (ethically or legally).


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Old Jan 6, 2005, 1:15 PM   #29
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Kenny_Leong wrote:
[/quote]
I see ... are you implying that we need reading lessons and english comprehension class?[/quote]

I fail to see any inference in my statement that might lead you to such a conclusion? In fact, if you indeed read my postings on this thread you'll clearly see my opposition to the original posters query. However, I don't think it necessary to lay out the illegality of his possible intent, nor do I think it would help this fellow by having others belittle him. But if you get your kicks out of such activities perhaps it is your moral compass that needs to be checked.

Sam
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Old Jan 6, 2005, 1:23 PM   #30
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I don't think anybody is necessarily belittiling this guy. I think the majority are only trying to help this individual grow some morals, and realize that if it's worth having, it's worth taking the time to get in an honest manner (i.e. get it fixed and sell, and then save up money to buy what you want). Coincidentally fraudulently trying to get a replacement and/or upgrade via the warranty (I don't care, nor does the law whether it's the manufacturer's warranty or a secondary company warranty) is only going to hurt everybody else in the long run. If anything it may make it harder down the road to turn in legitimate warranty work because the company will likely get slightly less trusting with each incident, and quit giving the benefit of a doubt. I'm not looking forward to that. It's unfortunate when people can't see the big picture and how much individuals can change it with bad decisions.



If this is alright, I could say once my 20D gets some use under it's belt and I decide I'm tired of it and want a 1DS Mark II I could just trash it and then just ask for a discount on that instead of a replacement camera. I feel sorry for anybody whose moral compass allows them to think that way...

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