Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jan 9, 2005, 1:58 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Hoooba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 197
Default

Hi Everyone,

I am wondering if what part of the workflow does noise reduction fall in? Here are my options

1. Reduce noise first

2. Reduce noise at the end BEFORE sharpening

3. Reduce noise at the end AFTER sharpening

I am using PS CS and the Neat Image Plugin. Thanks for all your help
Hoooba is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Jan 9, 2005, 3:46 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Freefly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 368
Default

Reduce noise at the end BEFORE sharpening. If you did it before, it would undo your sharpening attempts a little. Although Neat image has sharpening built in, you could try that! If you reduced noise first, you may add more noise as you adjust levels etc. thereby needing to reduce noise a second time!
Freefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 9, 2005, 6:52 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
Default

One problem with reducing noise later is that once you adjust the picture in any way you can't use the pre-trained noise profiles to remove the noise.

If there is a location to train it, then removing it later is just fine. If not, then you're out of luck.

Because of this, I always remove noise as the first thing. I do, on rare occasions have to do a second pass... but so infrequently as to not matter.

I have only recently started to use the sharpening built in to neat image. Some times it seems to save the detail that noise reduction removed. (but noise reduction doesn't always loose detail so it isn't always necessary.)

Eric
eric s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 9, 2005, 11:27 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Mr_Saginaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 552
Default

eric s wrote:
Quote:
...

If there is a location to train it, then removing it later is just fine. If not, then you're out of luck.

Eric
Eric,

By train i'm guessing you do the "Noise Analyzer" for each individual pic? I saved my noise profiles and then I usually just batch process them for anything over a few pics. Perhaps not perfect by I've happy with the results. I may have a hundred pics from a weekend of shooting...

and yes I do noise reduction last. I use Neat Image and set it to do noise reduction with bit of sharpening. Very happy with the results.
Mr_Saginaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 9, 2005, 11:59 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Hoooba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 197
Default

So can I just rely on the sharpening in Neat Image? Is it any different than USM?
Hoooba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 9, 2005, 4:16 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
Default

(note, I use NeatImage. My comments might not apply to other noise removal programs.)
Mr_Saginaw

The results that I got would make me very surprised if you could batch process with saved noise profiles (especially on an edited image) and get good results. I know that I didn't. I am often able to remove 100% of the noise if I train on that image. I usually can't go over 50% removal if I use a pre-built profile.

Once I increased contrast overall, did local contrast adjustments by hand, maybe shifted exposure a touch, maybe altered hue/saturation.... after that the noise characteristics are so different that I found pre-built noise profiles just didn't do much of anything. I have to train (yes, using the Analyzer.)

Exactly how to do you it at the end with pre-built profiles? Do you script everything? If you changed each picture the same way, and then used pre-built profiles that were made with those same changes... ok, that would work. But I find that every image doesn't get the same treatment so this wouldn't work for me.

In the end, if you're happy with it than that is all that matters. I don't edited more than 10-20 images from a weekend... clearly my way wouldn't work with 100.

Hoooba,
I'm not sure if you can only rely on the sharpening that is in NeatImage. I certainly don't. But I do some times use it to recover some detail that was lost when I removed the noise (I prefer to loose no detail but some times I do.)

I think the statement is that you shouldn't "only depend" on the NeatImage sharpening. USM clearly is better on its flexability alone. You can vary the settings. You can use masks and selectively sharpen things that need it. I don't see why you'd want to do that with NeatImage (you could, but why not just do that with USM?)

Eric
eric s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 9, 2005, 5:05 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Mr_Saginaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 552
Default

I agreee with Eric in that I do the USM in PS and then do noise removal with a just touch of sharpening in Neat Image.

Eric, actually of the 100 picture from the weekend are all very similar and all get close to the same adjustment in PS. Think gymnastics meet...

So I build a profile based on one of the pics and then batch up the rest letting Neat Image auto-match the pic to the profile. I get pretty good results that way... like you said as long as we're happy with the results!

If I do just have a couple of images I will do each one individually...

j
Mr_Saginaw is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:02 AM.