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Old Nov 16, 2002, 9:58 AM   #11
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Well done NHL. But it a bit difficult to fill out a scheme like that. "Differences" can be both plus and minuses.

I'll give Nikon these additional plusses:
small body
More "filmlike" picquality ("NO" NOISE )
Nice compact design
possibility to one hand shoot and zoom
great macro
Lithium batteries (lighweight and easy to carry - exp. though)

The minolta minusses:

poor EVF really bad in corners
still big powerconsumer
plasticlike body (I know it's magnesium inside but...outside!)
poor design
big and clumsy body
Not that good a macro
You have to use both hands almost all the time shooting
and using the menu

and so the story goes...on and on.

It's a bit difficult to do this. A "difference" for you, is a plus for me i.e the tilt LCD. I don't use strobes ...so that's just a difference for me - not a PLUS...

Do you follow ? But the scheme is made of you and I accept that these issues is important for you.
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Old Nov 16, 2002, 4:04 PM   #12
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Well I change the differences to subjective, and everyone can voice their opinion.

As to big power consumer the D7i actually last longer than the 5700 in DpReview test, and actually Lithium battery while lighter are more expensive, not as powerful, and not as popular as AA NiMh. It also varies with the charger and capacity (dpReview tested with 1600mAh). In case of the EN-EL1 it actually works against the Nikon in the microdrive department, and one would need the optional grip! The F717 would win in this department, but again this battery is expensive and you know all the woos about the infolithium when they go out of wack...

The macro on the D7's is not just wide, but also @ the long end (more magnification), but let's give that one to Nikon (Sony too?).

Plastic like is just an opinion and the D7hi is black and krinkle finished more like an Nikon of yore, there's no complaint here compare to the D7 or D7i which is silvered smooth (I can add another column)... Poor design, the Minolta camp can also say that about the Nikon pushbuttons... (we can add an entry for opinions)

Any input from the Sony camp?

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Old Nov 16, 2002, 4:59 PM   #13
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wouldn't you say one hand operation is a PLUS ? I would - then you can put your wired flash in the other hand for creative flashshots.


What about Nikons center-weighted flex focus metering - PLUS

I still don't see how you can put AA-batteries as a PLUS!

Frankly I also find the powerzoom a PLUS as well as the direct manual focus is it (on the Minolta). One hand shooting again!


The "difficult focus in low light" should be renamed to "diff. focus in low light WITHOUT external flash".

And where did the "poor EVF" (it really is!) on the Minolta go!


NHL be careful and be fair - otherwise this is a waste of time!
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Old Nov 17, 2002, 8:11 AM   #14
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Klaus

I thought we went over this on other threads, the NiMh AA are both cheaper, and more powerful than the EN-EL1. They are available anywhere, and you can use them in other devices ie a CP990 for example, an Olympus or a Fuji S602 for that matter:
o 1800 mAh NiMh AAs is (4.8V x 1800) 8640 mW for $12
o EN-EL1 is (7.2V x 700) 5040 mW for @ least twice the cost if not more...
I can put the Lithium in the plus column if you want, but you have to show the facts in the comments column as well. Other thread has reported $10 for 1800mAh NiMh @ Walmart (with free charger), you don't see this as a plus? Especially when they outlasted the 5700 in dpReview own review with only 1600mAh capacity batteries used:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp5700/page12.asp

As for the EVF, the Minolta's is an evenly LED backlit solid state LCD device just like the Nikon, in fact it has even more pixels, 220000 vs Nikon's 180000. It's brightness can also be adjusted to 5 different levels, and can be autoswitched with the LCD @ eyelevel, a plus feature that I did not include (also auto On/Off when used by itself). Could it be that when you tested this camera it has a filter on that vignetted the corners off or the brightness turn down (the default is 3 out of 5)?

The Minolta also has the same center-weighted AF as the Nikon where you can jump between different fix center AF focus points. The Flex pointer on the Minolta let you move a cursor to anywhere on the EVF/LCD screen, yes even at the corners!

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Old Nov 17, 2002, 1:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
As for the EVF, the Minolta's is an evenly LED backlit solid state LCD device just like...
I've made my own direct visible test of the two EVF - and in my opinion the Minolta seems very unsharp in corners and the colors are not as real as CP5700... The Nikon EVF is a LOT better. I agree with your technical datas - but that won't help the reality.


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The Minolta also has the same center-weighted AF as the Nikon where you can jump between different fix center AF focus points. The Flex pointer on the Minolta let you move a cursor to anywhere on the EVF/LCD screen, yes even at the corners!
I agree it's a more flexible. But it should be placed in differinces. Another thing about this is - if your a serious photographer you will seldom use this feature. What you do in practice is - choose centerweigt , lock you focus/AE and move the eyecatcher where you want it. I think you've tried this. It's the easiest way and much faster when you need that.


One hand shooting should count as positive.

I don't see how a TILT EVF can be positive - an TILT LCD can - but not the EVF. Try asking an elderly man...for him it negative. He'll prefer the tilt LCD which with no doubt will count as a positive.
You cannot shot from the side and still get a view with the Minolta - Nikon can because of the Tilt LCD. I tell you it's great when you want to be descreet...no direct pointing at people. ops:


Discussing this I sense that we take pictures under different circumstances. What seems positive for me - obvious does'nt count for you.
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Old Nov 17, 2002, 7:27 PM   #16
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I don't think it's just your choice or mine (we've already did). On the AF, Minolta has actually three modes, beside the two common ones that we talked about (Sony only has one) so let keep them separate...

Quote:
we should be constructive and do as you suggested before to list the pluses and minuses of each camera here to help the readers in theses forum decide what is right for them
I think we're getting close, let's get a few more input from other readers in search for a camera or other owners think... and I don't mind changing this list @ all. Color is subjective with Sony having the most saturation, and it's a matter of preference. The 7Hi can make it totally flat with the AdobeRGB that some Photoshop users would prefer since that would leave them with more latitude in the post-processing adjustments.

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Old Nov 17, 2002, 9:47 PM   #17
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Did anyone mention that:

Some cameras that allow manual focus for ordinary shots lack manual focus for macro where I really wanted it?

Some cameras are easier to switch into manual mode using external switches while others require visiting menus?

I bought the Minolta because of the above points, the macro at the tele end (mentioned earlier) and the presence of 49mm threads to accept diopter or other filters (since non of the cameras mentioned would fill a frame with a dime without being so close that it was hard to light).

Few, certainly not I, can compare fairly since we have not used all three cameras. I wish someone would post clear examples of the noise form Minolta (be fair - ISO 100 not auto). The ones I have seen have not been clear or I'm blind. I would imagine I would be able to use any of the three with practice and doubt that any would be more a hinderance to good photos than my ineptitude has been.
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Old Nov 18, 2002, 8:52 AM   #18
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Doug

Good points, the macro @ tele don't scare the bugs away either (beside better lighting) :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW regarding color, I forgot to mention the 'Vivid' knob on the D7's and another of its unique feature: adjustable color filters wheel...
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Old Nov 18, 2002, 4:44 PM   #19
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My 4 bits:

Swivel EVF is definitely a positive, though not as good as swivel LCD. Both are positives.

Macro at tele is positive--just add a comment to "macro" under Sony and Nikon to explain that they have better magnification, and list macro at tele separately. Or something.

How about continuous shooting, shutter lag and other timing differences? I understand the Sony is very fast in some ways, the 7Hi in others.

From what I've seen, Sony 717 has the best color and resolution of the three. Maybe others will disagree. See imaging-resource.com and dpreview.com reviews for commentary and measurements.
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Old Nov 18, 2002, 9:25 PM   #20
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Here's the update:



The timings are good to have, but in real life situation are totally dependent on the speed of the AF, the subject detail/contrast, lighting, and zoom position. The numbers posted on various sites already indicate how fast a camera reacted to particular tests condition, and are well documented already... I just don't want to open another can of worm.

In most circumstances, and I can only speak for the D7's: after the AF has locked on the 1st shot and if the shutter is not released all the way (ie is not let go past the 1st detent), most camera can shoot extremely fast with no perceivable shutter lag on subsequent shots in the single frame mode. All owners can check their cameras out and report them back here.

Also if everyone can shoot as fast as they can press the shutter release in manual, that'll take the AF and the metering out of the equation, and is fast enough... No one here can tell a few hundred of milliseconds with their finger! :lol:

Write timings to flash/microdrive are also good to know, but in most circumstances they get buffered by the cameras, and are transparent to the users. Only raw files timing to flash are absolute, but then again, only a small percentage of people are using this feature and cameras with large buffer like the D7hi will benefit most! (So don't buy fast flash cards unless one is in raw)

In case the fonts are too small to read:
http://www.pbase.com/image/7533916/original
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