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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:56 AM   #21
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I have never owned a DSLR, got a regular SLR just a year ago. For me, growing up, any "regular" camera costing 20 bucks or more was a good camera. I bought a $35 Kodak point and shoot and thought it was top class. I had no idea that people could spend hundreds, much less thousands of dollars on cameras and accessories.

For me digital cameras have been a boon. I have taken more pictures in the last 4 years than I did in the previous 40.

I challenge the implied assertion that all today's digital cameras will necessarily have to be thrown out in 3 to 5 years. If the camera itself is mechanically and electronically sound, you don't have to get rid of it. You throw it out because there's something newer or faster that you want. But that's a choice unless photography is your job and your boss or customers demand faster performance. Your Pentax *ist DS will still be capable of taking 6 megapixel pictures that are beautiful when printed up at up to 11" X 14" or whatever.5 years from now you don't have to yield to the desire to have a 15 megapixel or 20 megapixel camera capaable of taking 30 fullsized pictures in 5 seconds in burst mode. Many people will, but you don't have to.

For me, a Canon entry level digital SLR is a luxury. I don't mind that it's not built like a more expensive camera. My first new car was a tiny Daihatsu. I liked it. Now I have a Honda Civic. It doesn't bother me that it's mass produced and not as sturdy as a Volvo or as stylish as a Jaguar or that millions of other average Joes and Jolines have the same model.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 8:28 AM   #22
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KSV wrote:
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BillDrew wrote:
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Good equipment ain't cheap.
Because it is not mass production! And it is not mass production because general public never appreciate such thing. If it would be mass production I am sure price will go down dramatically. ...
I think I grasp your basic problem: other folks have different preferences than your do.

I agree that there are some silly bells & whistles tacked onto digicams - who in their right mind would produce sepia toned images directly (and irreversable) from digicam? Those are there because they are cheap - probably only price of a few antacids for the programer who ate to much piza. The marginal cost is zero.

You are also right in saying that good glass can be found for about $1,000. And you want that in a camera that costs $500?
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 8:55 AM   #23
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KSV wrote:
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[snip]
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I would prefer short version of 20D...
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I prefer high quality execution versus electronic gizmos ...
Each user will have different needs (or perceived needs), budget, etc.

That you prefer some things in a camera, and someone else prefers others, is what makesthemarket interesting and competitive.


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Old Mar 15, 2005, 5:33 PM   #24
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PhotoEcosse wrote:
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I think I can now see your point. You seem to be saying that you would prefer the 350D to have been a well executed "basic" camera, rather than an adequately executed "more advanced" camera.
Thanks - it is seems to me that you understand me better that anyone else. I knew everything what you have said - this topic not for asking for help, but rather to share feeling. Unfortunately market (i.e. crowd who pay wast majority of money) dictate what manufactures doing. And it seems to me that real photo enthusiasts can not get (or can not afford) what they want. In another word photo-market not really oriented on photo enthusiasts, as least this is hoe I see it.

BTW I have film camera, scanner, DSLR andpocket P&S as well :-)

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Old Mar 15, 2005, 5:44 PM   #25
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JimC wrote:
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Each user will have different needs (or perceived needs), budget, etc.

That you prefer some things in a camera, and someone else prefers others, is what makesthemarket interesting and competitive.

Jim, you are wrong. For example I *HATE* (this is exact expression) automatic car. But so many models never executed in manual form - thus I HAVE NO CHOICE! The same applicable to cameras. So I think that you are wrong about "interesting and competitive" - IMHO it dump and restrictive. Again I perfectlyrealize that no-one manufacture will care about say 1% or retrogrades like me, butthis understanding can not make me more happy.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 6:41 PM   #26
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KSV ... you already understand how a company works right? They have to do their research to first find out what a potential customers may like in a product and how much they'd want to pay. You can bet that Canon has done their homework on that. No point in making a product that not many people are going to buy-unless there is a guarantee that the company will still make substantial profits to keep the product line alive.

Since you already have some understanding of the above, then I'm not sure where your original comments about the 350D are leading to. I mean, what would you like Canon to do exactly? You want them to make a custom product with high quality materials with your own specifications? That would be ok...but would it be profitable for Canon? That is, you got to ask yourself whether it's possible to make such a product at a low price, but still make significant profit from its sales. If you can do that, then maybe you should be CEO of Canon.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 6:45 PM   #27
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KSV wrote:
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Jim, you are wrong. For example I *HATE* (this is exact expression) automatic car. But so many models never executed in manual form - thus I HAVE NO CHOICE!
*snip*
KSV ... could you name those 'so many models' that were never produced in manual form?
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 6:51 PM   #28
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For example there are no manual BMW series 5 (except of M5 for 1/4 of million) in Oz. Similar applicable to almost any luxury or semi-luxury models. High-end locals never been done in manual. High end 4WD (!!!) like Toyota Land Cruiser unavailable in manual, Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima - just little bit better then executives models - never been sold in manul... Would you like me continue?
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:02 PM   #29
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Kenny_Leong wrote:
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... you already understand how a company works right? ...
:-) Unfortunately even better then you might think. My wife is an accountant and Iawareabout any kind of costing, including latest perversion called "target costing". I do not ask or expect Canon (or any other manufacture) to do anything deliberately to pleasure me. Just gotta feeling that photo-market going in wrong direction (from photo-enthisiasts - not manufactures point of view) and asking your opinion - this is it :-)
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:04 PM   #30
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KSV .. Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima and Toyota Landcruiser not available in manual transmission? I don't know about Oz...but there's 'no way' that these cars aren't available in manual transmission.

Luxury forms may not be in the manual form for reasons of driving comfort/luxury. It doesn't mean that you can't buy a non-luxury form that has manual transmission, and then you can pay to upgrade the internals a bit to make the car luxurious. The thing is...those cars are available in manual form. If you stick manual transmission in a very luxurious car, then you could say it wouldn't be so luxurious anymore.
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