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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:15 PM   #31
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KSV wrote:
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*snip*
Just gotta feeling that photo-market going in wrong direction (from photo-enthisiasts - not manufactures point of view) and asking your opinion - this is it :-)
I'm sure there are photo-enthusiasts and photography experts working for Canon that give their advice and recommendations - to contribute to that company's success. I also strongly believe there is a significant number of photo enthusiasts out there that will be happy with their new 350D.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:25 PM   #32
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So question is very simple – how you (Canon's fan) can be in love with this plastic box?
The answer is very simple too.... if the user is extremely satisfied with the performance and the results from the camera, then they will like the camera very much. If it gives you very nice results, and you're happy with it, then it's fantastic.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:35 PM   #33
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then you could say it wouldn't be so luxurious anymore.
Not by my definition - sorry for that :-). So you believe that this is correct choice - either fully export car from another side of the globe (mind you - will not covered by manufacture warranty) or get automatic locally and rebuild it for cost exceed the car itself? And you call this choice? Well in this case anyone have a choice - 350D or 20D :-) IMHO there is no choice here - choice means the you can choose between similarly priced items doing similar things with different set of features. There is nothing to choose between say Daewoo and Porsche
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:39 PM   #34
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KSV wrote:
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Kenny_Leong wrote:
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then you could say it wouldn't be so luxurious anymore.
Not by my definition - sorry for that :-). So you believe that this is correct choice - either fully export car from another side of the globe (mind you - will not covered by manufacture warranty) or get automatic locally and rebuild it for cost exceed the car itself? And you call this choice? Well in this case anyone have a choice - 350D or 20D :-) IMHO there is no choice here - choice means the you can choose between similarly priced items doing similar things with different set of features. There is nothing to choose between say Daewoo and Porsche
See KSV ... in this world, there are decisions to make. There are constraints. You just have to choose whatever is available to you. Life is like that. For example, so far...everybody grow old and then they...(you know what). You have no real choice about that.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 7:54 PM   #35
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You have no real choice about that.
Correct, and this is unfixable unless I can talk to Mephistophel :lolefinitely not like with "manual v auto" or "quality v gizmos" witch is came to such a way purely and only because general public happily get convinced by manufactures that "this is where progress to go". Phew!
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 8:10 PM   #36
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Exactly! Since the pentax *ist had enough features to convince you to get it, you then ended up getting it. The canon 350D is the same. If the features are appealing enough to a potential customer, then they'll buy it.

The thing is, as you mentioned...quality. Since LCD and CCD kind of fail much more easily (than components in conventional film SLR cameras)...due to the electronic component side of things, we could easily say that they shouldn't even produce digital cameras at all...especially the most expensive digital cameras. But there's a huge market for it...and there are certain big advantages with going digital. The thing is....affordable digital SLR cameras are fairly new. If you wait around for a bit longer, then I'm sure you're going to have cameras that do what the 20D does right now, at a much lower price. We've seen this happen in cell/mobile phones, computers, audio-visual equipment, digital cameras etc. The future attractive priced cameras may still have unnecessary features....but you don't have to use those features if you don't want.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 8:40 PM   #37
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We've seen this happen in cell/mobile phones, computers, audio-visual equipment, digital cameras etc.

Well, well...

Mobile phones these days get much more gizmos than everything else combined together. Never mind that they cameras total crap, screens total crap buttons unusable etc. But above all they so unreliable compared to old fashion analog bricks... But again - who cares about reception quality? :blaho I have choice to use old analog mobile? No I am not.

Computers these days (I am an programmer BTW) is *FAR* more powerful than even 5 years ago. My question is - do we gained productivity because of this? But again XP is so cool and so colorful - who cares about productivity? :blaho I have *REAL* choice here?Again not at all.

Well if you have 200 or so bucks or so you can get "home theater" from the box. Sound quality (as per all MP3, AC3 etc) not even compatible to old good stereo. But who really cares about sound quality when those small shitty-bitty speakers is so-o-o-o cool? :blah:Well, here I have some choice - fork out couple of thousand backs and get descent quality sound.

There is no digital cameras these days without flip-on screen - obviously it is much cooler than to have 3CCD sensor witch deliver superior performance versus single CCD :blah:Except high-level professional equipment all modern digital cameras has color LCD viewfinder - IMHO totally unusablecrap comparing to CRT B&W one. Once again my choice here means that I have to add extra zero to bottom line be able to achieve what I want.

And you convinced that this is progress? I personally do not think so.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 10:49 PM   #38
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I think you've just taken an off-road excursion KSV. I was saying that if you wait long enough, you'll be able to get consumer products that will allow you to do what the most current expensive consumer products do, at a significantly reduced price.

And remember...the title of this thread is 'Canon 350D - are you serious?'. The title itself seems to imply that you are bagging the 350D, because it's made of plastic and that (in your opinion) it doesn't have the highest quality materials and components. And you're asking people 'how can someone be in "love" with this 'plastic box'?".

I don't think that you understand that the highest quality products with the highest performance costs a lot of money. And I think you're trying to say that you want a product that can do 'nearly' as much as the 20D, but costs next to nothing. This is probably where you need to understand that while it is possible to cut down the 20D a little, the price would not change by much, since the main components would still add up to be the same as in the 20D.

So your idea of having cheap cameras with 'near' 20D features is unrealistic. And as somebody said ... the extra 'gizmos' on cameras are not that expensive to incorporate. You don't have to use them if you don't want to. And they wouldn't take much off the price of the camera if these extra 'gizmos' were to be excluded.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 11:33 PM   #39
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KSV wrote:
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There is no digital cameras these days without flip-on screen - obviously it is much cooler than to have 3CCD sensor witch deliver superior performance versus single CCD :blah:Except high-level professional equipment all modern digital cameras has color LCD viewfinder - IMHO totally unusablecrap comparing to CRT B&W one. Once again my choice here means that I have to add extra zero to bottom line be able to achieve what I want.

how sure are you that 3CCD is really going to be much of an improvement over the large, full frameCCD/CMOS sensors that Canon, Nikon,Fuji, Pentaxetc. are using in all of their TOP END cameras. if it was really better wouldnt one of these companies try it? if professional photographers thought it was REALLY neccessary wouldnt at least one of these top names put it in a camera?

i think that you should go with the flow on this one and if you really want to get the camera that you really want, build it yourself and im sure that you will be able to construct a very fine piece of machinery that fits your needs and your pocketbook.

send me some pictures of the finished product and if i like it ill have a $500 bill with your name on it
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 11:41 PM   #40
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I do not believe that you properly get my point. And BTW this is you get this discussion off-road :-). I state that any modern DSLR has performance significantly higher than 99% buyers need. Now Canon updating its already very good 300D. Two significantly different options here

1. increase quality (update body, put pentaprizm etc)

2.or update specs (8mp etc)

My wishes would be option 1, but by average dump buyer it is not considered as improvement! Furthermore - Canon *MUST* put 8mp sensor, because if Canon will not do it someone else will (Nikon for example). If (say as an example) Canon make its upgrade using option 1 and effectively create "basic" 20D and Nikon in return make its new D75 with EXACTLY THE SAME SPEC asCanons in cheapest possible execution but with 7mp sensor instead of 6mp then in herd's point of view new Nikon became "superior" to new Canon! And this is exactly my point - herd does not want to have good stuff, rather like to have "cool" and "fun"stuff. Someone in this tread already pointedto unsuccessful Pentax experiment in this area. Unfortunatelyherd paying vast majority of money, dictate marketand (IMHO) photo-enthusiasts are loose here - and this what is make me upset.

Whats regarding to cost, that is very simple - if something became mass-seller cost will go down dramatically. But it is sort of chicken-egg situation - cost is high because not enough sells and not enough sells because cost is high. This wall is breakable only by putting on the market mass product with guaranteed sells. So what Canon's choice? Right - it is matching with herd's choice. Unfortunately I have no choice in this situation.


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