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Old Mar 15, 2005, 10:43 PM   #41
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lemondster wrote:
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how sure are you that 3CCD is really going to be much of an improvement over the large, full frameCCD/CMOS sensors that Canon, Nikon,Fuji, Pentaxetc. are using in all of their TOP END cameras.
Sorry - comment about 3CCD related to video-cameras.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 11:08 PM   #42
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KSV...I believe you're running around in circles. You said there's 2 options...which you put forward yourself. You're saying that you'd like option 1 to be implemented. But then you're also saying that canon 'must' also go for option 2 at the same time. So you're basically saying that canon should improve material quality, and stick in a prism, AND update the ccd resolution. So you're saying that canon should go for both option 1 and option 2 at the same time. Thus, you're saying that canon should make a 20D priced camera.

I don't think you understand that upgrading the camera's materials and features costs money.

You also said "I state that any modern DSLR has performance significantly higher than 99% buyers need".

I'm not sure where you got that 99% figure from. Anyhow....if a cheap compact camera could be developed with DSLR performance, then I reckon that 100% of buyers would WANT that. Unfortunately, no such camera exists today.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 11:28 PM   #43
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I can not get it - you really do not understand or just trolling? I said "Canon *MUST*" meaning that they must do it from marketing point of view - i.e.to pleasureherd. Obviously they can not afford to do everything at once - otherwise would be easier just slush price on 20D - this is why they choose option 2.

And doYOU understand that sensor is most expensive part of DSLR? Do you understand that Canon put on table lots of money for developing brand new sensor in bid ofpleasuring herd and in bid of winning this stupid race? And therefore they have no money left to upgrade everything else?
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Old Mar 16, 2005, 12:18 AM   #44
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KSV ... you said 'must'. So now... do you understand that it costs money to improve the camera? So you want Canon to satisfy the public? Or you want Canon to satisfy YOU?

And do you seriously believe that if Canon 'simply' gives you improved materials for the 300D camera, and a prism, then you'll be able to have close-to-20D-performance camera for a mere 500 dollars?

Also...suppose Canon skips the resolution upgrade, and performed this body and prism improvement for you...and then their product doesn't do well... because of you. What then?

Don't forget...you're the one that stated that '99%' of buyers don't 'need' DSLR performance. So from your statement, it should mean that Canon shouldn't need to worry much about you...right?
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Old Mar 16, 2005, 12:36 AM   #45
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Kenny_Leong wrote:
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..it should mean that Canon shouldn't need to worry much about you...right?
But they indeed do not worry about myself anyway! As well as they (IMHO) do not worry aboutthousands of photo enthusiasts! What they DO worry about is how to make money, and to achieve that they have to (sorry *MUST*) satisfy the crowd and preferably as cheaply as possible - hence we'v got what we'v got.

Hey, I am not about to change anything andI do not need any psychological help (financial would be nice :-) ). I just like to know your opinion on "quality v giszmos" - nothing more.
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Old Mar 16, 2005, 1:29 AM   #46
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I see...ok. Well, for things that I want to last for a long time, like a camera, I like good reliability. It would be very nice to have these in digital cameras. It's interesting how my canon (FTb) and nikon (F3) film cameras just keep chugging along and never break down...and keep producing fantastic pictures.

While digital cameras seem to develop hot pixel, CCD, and switch/button problems after a few years (or even less). It still doesn't stop me from buying digital cameras, because they have their own excellent advantages. But reliability is a bit of an issue maybe...especially for folks on a budget that think that their digital camera will give them problem-free usage for years and years. I'm not exactly sure whether this is a quality issue, or it's just something we have to live with. Maybe they just haven't come up with a way to get long-lasting, trouble-free CCD electronics.

At least some guy on the internet wrote some kind of hot-pixel remapping software for some of the nikon cameras in case people get hot pixel problems. But it's interesting how camera companies don't have a courtesy policy for providing free hot-pixel remapping services, if the camera-owner offers to pay for shipping and packing costs. This would be nice, because these hot-pixels can develop after some time, even if we look after our digicams really well.

As for camera bodies. I don't mind if it's plastic...as long as the paint doesn't start flaking off after a short time for no reason. I've owned cameras for a long time, and I've never dropped or bumped any of my cameras before. So I don't require something solid...although I do like a bit of weight in SLR cameras. But for those folks doing lots of work in harsh environments, something solid might be good....but then again, they should already know that cameras aren't supposed to be knocked around and dropped anyhow.

I guess I'd just like good reliability and good performance. And reliability naturally depends on quality of materials, parts, assembly etc.

As for 'gizmos'...it depends on what gizmo it is. I do find that the orientation sensors can be useful. However, I've read that these can fail. I don't think they're absolutely necessary though, but can be convenient. Things like software processing (such as sepia image) is completely unnecessary, but as somebody mentioned...hardly costs anything to include as a novel (or useless) feature. I don't really class software processing as a gizmo though. So in the end, digital cameras don't really have a great deal of gizmos in them right? The only ones I can think of are just orientation sensors, GPS system, and inbuilt image stabilisers. I think GPS can be handy for some folks, like professionals, law-enforcement folks, or the most pedantic photographers. Image stabilisation is great too...under suitable conditions, but I just hope that the stabiisation system is reliable and can last for a long time. As we all know...the more electro-mechanical gadgets we tack on, the more things can go wrong. It's not like an airplane, which has backup systems.

There's my huge rant for the day.
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Old Mar 16, 2005, 6:41 AM   #47
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i don't understand what ksv's point to all this is.
why don't you just be happy with your pentax and move on?

businesses is about selling and marketing. its products or product lines is how they make their money.
if the masses wanted an 8mp dslr camera sub $1,000, then canon gave them what they wanted.you get what you pay for and apparently they gave a lot. at the expense of some build quality which i can live with.

its all simple you know. IF i don't care to waste my hard earned money on the 350d, i won't but i will because i perceive it to be worth the price. i'd even say its BETTER than your pentax. then again thats more subjective opinion for the masses.
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Old Mar 16, 2005, 7:24 AM   #48
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I really don't get the original post:?, there is little and no point to what is obvious, companies will alwaysproduce newer models. Try listening to people in camera shops, the more megapixels the better even if it is not true. If pentax or nikon developed a 10 megapixel then canon and others would follow suit, if they want to sell cameras they have to judge the market, if there is a market for something it sells, simple as that.

As for the 350D, I think most of the hype is about sales, It has a few more bells and whistles compared to the 300d but Im sticking with the 300d until I can afford a 20D or better. However if I was buying for the first time I'd get the latest model, It makes sense.

I like Canons, Ive had three canon digitals and have been happy with all so I will buy the Ef lenses and upgrade in time, Why would I want to do anything else. And someone please explain the difference between photos and color pictures, tis all the same to me. Just that some people are better at it than others.
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Old Mar 16, 2005, 10:28 AM   #49
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a photo is when the photographer pays closer attentition to the artistic value of the subject that (s)he is capturing.

are more megapixels better?.... YES more megapixels will always be better but it is NOT the MOST important aspect of the camera the more resolution you have the more flexability you have in editing and cropping your prints. but if you have a really good CCD with a shotty lens infront of it; you have wasted your time.

if you want the features of the 20D then BUY THE 20D, if you dont want to pay that much then wait a year or so and the price will go down as the 40D (i think) will be out and drive the price down. if you cant wait that long get the 10D. or if you have beef withCanon get the Nikon D100 or D70, or just keep your Pentax. if you want professional equipment then you have to be prepared to BUY PROFESSIONAL EQUIPMENT. is the Rebel XT (350D) a professional camera? NO I dont thik it was ever meant to be professional, so dont expect it to be!


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Old Mar 16, 2005, 4:49 PM   #50
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Thanks everyone. My understanding is that majority of you answering something like that "I do not care about quality execution as long as I can get all gimmicks offered by 350D for reasonable money". Well, it just reflects what happens in whole society - people do not care much about quality, but rather care about gizmos. Sad...
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