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Old Mar 22, 2005, 1:52 AM   #1
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If our eyes were a camera, then what would be the equivalent F/stop, shutter speed, and ISO setting in... either a VERY dark room (one that would require a 30-second exposure at F/2.0 and ISO 800), outdoors at night under moderate moonlight, indoors with average lighting, or outdoors in sunlight?

What setting do I use on my S1 IS (aperture and ISO) to go 4 stops faster on the shutter speed than my eye's equivalent in average indoor lighting in a medium-size building with fluorescent lighting, and the same noise level and depth of field that my eyes have (assuming the same 35mm equivalent focal length)?

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Also (maybe I should put this in another topic though), which is less expensive (I'm talking SLR lenses here), a 400mm F/2.8 lens without IS, or a 400mm F/5.6 or F/8.0 lens with IS? Film speed would be the same in both cases (or could be adjusted if necessary to get the same amount of subject motion blur (or lack thereof). Example, at F/2.8 I would be using ISO 800 or ISO 1600. What's the difference in prices for those?

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What's the film equivalent (and typical street prices) of the Canon Rebel XT, EOS-20Da, or EOS-1DS Mark II? (would be willing to consider other brands too)
What are recommended lenses for a camera, and at what prices? Basically I would want a large range of focal lengths so that at "full telephoto" I could get as much detail as a Panasonic FZ-20 (although I could sacrifice a stop or two on the aperture especially if the lens has IS), and at < 100mm I can get as fast of a shutter speed as possible. Most likely I would probably be using 800 or 1600 (or faster if I could find it, and depending on its quality) film in low light.
Also what's the cost of getting lots of rolls, and getting them put on CD or DVD without actually having prints made (for example, 500 exposures or 1000 exposures)?

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Old Mar 22, 2005, 11:10 AM   #2
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I don't think you can compare the human eye to a camera in terms of night or dark response. I have read somewhere that the human eye is 20,000 times more sensitive in the dark than it is during the day. This has more to do with different biological sensors coming into play rather than how much the iris opens up. Considering the iris only, the difference between day and night is probably only a few f-stops.

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Old Mar 22, 2005, 1:19 PM   #3
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Ok, then considering the ISO setting, would we be using ISO 400 at night? ISO 6400? ISO 200000?
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 3:47 PM   #4
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I have heard that the human eye can see (in color) about a 10-stop range of light. But the way the eye sees in low-light (you actually will see in black-and-white in low enough light) is different than in regular light.

I can't tell you about ISO, as the only real difference in ISO is the trade off of sensitivity vs grain (all films being equal in contrast/saturation/whatever.) The human eye has no grain to it and I don't believe it looses the ability to see detail in low light (only color.) So I don't believe ISO applies.

The human eye sees DOF differently than a camera does. You don't really seen things as being out of focus as much as you just don't really pay attention to it and your eye is a continuous focus device. You look at something and it gets into focus (ignoring eye problems.)

Since you're talking about IS, I assume you mean Canon lenses. I don't believe canon makes a 400mm f2.8 without IS, so I can't quote a price there. They do make a 400mm f5.6 without IS, its around $1000. I know of no 4000 f8 lens that isn't a mirror lens (which doesn't have an IS) and it isn't made by canon so comparing prices isn't fair.

The equivalent to the 1Ds MkII is the EOS-1V, and its $1600 or so. The 1D MkII (more FPS) is the EOS IV-HS at $2000. I believe the 20D is roughtly the same as the EOS 3 at a bit under $900 and the DRebel is the same as one of the Film Rebel models between $150-$300

It is not possible to answer "What are recommended lenses for a camera, and at what prices?" Lenses are tools, so you have to say what you'll use them for. I would suggest you ask your question in the canon lens section including the detail you have here and more. What subjects you'll take pictures of and under what conditions.

As to prices, I suggest you poke around:
www.bhphoto.com
and
www.adorama.com

Personally, I've heard bad things about adorama's post-sales support. But their web page is so easy to use I often go there to search around for things. www.bhphoto.com won't have the rock-bottom price... usually because those are scams. But they have really good prices and an amazing reputation.

Eric
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 4:18 PM   #5
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Just be glad it was not Karl Zeiss or Leica that created eyeballs
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 4:36 PM   #6
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eric s wrote:
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I have heard that the human eye can see (in color) about a 10-stop range of light. But the way the eye sees in low-light (you actually will see in black-and-white in low enough light) is different than in regular light.

I can't tell you about ISO, as the only real difference in ISO is the trade off of sensitivity vs grain (all films being equal in contrast/saturation/whatever.) The human eye has no grain to it and I don't believe it looses the ability to see detail in low light (only color.) So I don't believe ISO applies.

The human eye sees DOF differently than a camera does. You don't really seen things as being out of focus as much as you just don't really pay attention to it and your eye is a continuous focus device. You look at something and it gets into focus (ignoring eye problems.)

Since you're talking about IS, I assume you mean Canon lenses. I don't believe canon makes a 400mm f2.8 without IS, so I can't quote a price there. They do make a 400mm f5.6 without IS, its around $1000. I know of no 4000 f8 lens that isn't a mirror lens (which doesn't have an IS) and it isn't made by canon so comparing prices isn't fair.

The equivalent to the 1Ds MkII is the EOS-1V, and its $1600 or so. The 1D MkII (more FPS) is the EOS IV-HS at $2000. I believe the 20D is roughtly the same as the EOS 3 at a bit under $900 and the DRebel is the same as one of the Film Rebel models between $150-$300

It is not possible to answer "What are recommended lenses for a camera, and at what prices?" Lenses are tools, so you have to say what you'll use them for. I would suggest you ask your question in the canon lens section including the detail you have here and more. What subjects you'll take pictures of and under what conditions.

As to prices, I suggest you poke around:
www.bhphoto.com
and
www.adorama.com

Personally, I've heard bad things about adorama's post-sales support. But their web page is so easy to use I often go there to search around for things. www.bhphoto.com won't have the rock-bottom price... usually because those are scams. But they have really good prices and an amazing reputation.

Eric
Ok, I poked around there, and came up with...
Canon 50mm F/1.8 - $75
Canon 50mm F/1.4 - $310 (I want a fast lens but this is way out of my range - the F/1.8 is pushing it too.)
Canon 85mm F/1.2 - $1,475 (OUCH!!)
Canon 55-200mm F/4.5-5.6 - $210 (btw I'd need at LEAST ISO 1600 or faster film to get the shutter speeds I'd want if I got a lens that was that slow. - and price - a bit ouch.)

Also what's the typical price of having film developed onto CD? And where can I see example film images at various resolutions (for example up to the max film can handle) taken at ISO 800, ISO 1600, ISO 3200, and ISO 6400?

Also, if I use high ISO films, will it be not as noisy if I either A - don't blow it up so much, B - don't crop as much, or C - take the pics in better light?
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 4:48 PM   #7
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Your film questions would be better posted in a film forum, rather than a digital one.
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 5:19 PM   #8
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could you (or someone) suggest a film forum that's at LEAST as good as this one is for digital?
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 7:00 PM   #9
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I don't know about film forums, but if you're thinking of buying a used Canon film camera, here's historical info about the EOS line: http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/c...ies/f_eos.html

These use the same lenses as the current Canon dSLRs.
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 10:39 PM   #10
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I'm open to other brands. Speaking of lenses, I looked on ebay completed listings and saw what looked like fairly resonable prices for 50mm F/1.4 - around $20 and up for moderately used lenses.
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